I am sorry it has come to this, I really appreciated the time and help you have spent with me. I really tried to answer you as best i could, sometimes a straight forward question to you is not to me to you. I now how frustrating it must have been to you for that i apoligise. It is probaly now to late tO suggest a method to get full clarity on my problem. You are right there is probaly a simple solution and explantion to my problem if you were physically there helping me. Next best thing i can think of is a remote excess programme called LogMein which you could take over my PC and you wuld be in control. Another way I presume you are in USA I have access to cheap calls there. Anyway thanks again for your help. Regars Jack