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Specific Free Edit Discussion (Face Swap)


@polarwoc and to whom it concerns :cheesygrin:

- Don't get me wrong, I consider editing an image as in the free request section equaly important as making a composite!
But are you willing to settle without trying?
For some it's a natural thing, others will have to go the extra mile.
For me it was a combination and I trashed so many PSD's before even posting for the first time.

- As for the free requests, when showing up in the list, there's nothing wrong with downloading the images and have a good look at them.
After assessing those images thoroughly you can already feel 'I can make this work' or 'nah, this won't work'.
You even can have a go at it and work on the request and end up with your result.
Then there's no compromise, you see it's good or you see it's not good.
If you see it's no good, trash the thing, don't post it.
If you wanna go a step further, post a reply to the OP explaining why it will not be good and leaving it for another member...
If you don't see it's bad and post it, you have an art/visual/technique related problem or just doing it for the posting itself.

Be honest and go back to the original thread and take a good look at the 3 submissions.
Do you think I would have posted my reply if I though even one of them was acceptable?
No, and why...there's no such thing as acceptable...
It is good or it is not good, don't settle for mediocrity, have pride in your work.
If not sure of your work, post it in the general board section and ask for critique/advice.

- Another issue I want to comment on is the 'community' thing...
When staring at my screen I see members coming online, in 99 % of the cases checking the Free Request and Paid Request sections. When there are no new requests, gone in 60 seconds...

I feel I do have a good to normal relationship with our members but I wonder where the community has gone...

I'am all open for suggestions and I'm sure that with some common sense we'll find a compromise/solution...
 
I agree in almost everything except for the pride, dont worry and dont be afraid of critic, if you post it people can help you with the mistakes and learn from it, especially at the beggining when you¡'re learning.

Of course i agree with being selective with the work you think its posible or not, but its no harm on trying or even post it and learning from it, i do it sometimes i just warning and i'm completly honest with the client or the op, about the final results i expect.
 
I agree in almost everything except for the pride, dont worry and dont be afraid of critic, if you post it people can help you with the mistakes and learn from it, especially at the beggining when you¡'re learning.

David,
It never was the intention to allow members to give critique or pointers in the free request section!
That is why I suggest that if you're not sure about the work you did and before posting it as respons in the free request section you do it in the general board section asking for critique and advice.
And I feel there's nothing wrong to have pride in your work, even after it would have been 'corrected' (maybe wrong expression but you know what I mean). It is the only way to learn, make mistakes, even falling flat on your nose, stand up and start over...and over...
 
You're right that maybe the free request section was not made for that, but being one of the most popular threads and this forum being a learning forum with not rules against it, i do it sometimes with the people i know like the criticism and make efforts to improve and never had a problem.

I understand what you mean, and everyone can be proud of you work, of course! what i was saying is that the pride cant be an impediment to post your work even if you know is not the best, if can you learn from it.
 
Well, the OP posting the request doesn't have interest in other members suggesting modifications or adjustments in his thread, he wants his request filled. He assumes he deals with competent Photoshoppers.
It also makes the thread disorderly.
I don't think it is a good idea to allow advice in the free request threads.
Imagine, you're filling a request and other members 'correct' you in that same thread. I feel it's not done... What impression would the OP have?
Therefore, if not sure about the work you did, post it in the general board, ask critique, if needed adjust your work and then post it in the free request.

Imagine for a moment that you are filling requests in the free request section and your work is constantly 'corrected' (you know what I mean) in that section in front of the OP, would you still have pride in what you're doing? I think you'll get frustrated and even stop doing it. We don't want that to happen so there comes the general board section...
 
Its one way to see it and maybe it could happen, but knowing the people in this forum i dont think it would be constant corrections, and if the op enter a learning forum enters the free request and expect all the members to be 10 years experience photoshopers it's not a very realistic person... and for that you have the paid section. In my opinion the op could get a better final jobs and the members learn from it, the post gets messier i agree XD.
 
- As for the free requests, when showing up in the list, there's nothing wrong with downloading the images and have a good look at them.
After assessing those images thoroughly you can already feel 'I can make this work' or 'nah, this won't work'.
You even can have a go at it and work on the request and end up with your result.
Then there's no compromise, you see it's good or you see it's not good.
If you see it's no good, trash the thing, don't post it.

I will give an example of this post. It was a terrible edit, I am aware but I put in whatever skill I have into making that edit. Once I worked on that image, I had two options - either to trash it or still post it. The reason why I still posted is 1) if nobody else attempts it, the OP has at least one option to go home with and maybe even satisfied with that result (though I am open for criticism which helps improve my technique) 2) once I post it, someone may say "Why not use this image of Arnie for a better result?" or "You will get better result if you use a Displacement Map" or "use Frequency Separation technique" and that will set me off on having another go at the image thereby learning. Posting that edit is a way of saying "I have gotten the image this far and I do not know how to better it, so any suggestions would be welcome". Imagine if I had worked on the image, considered it is a terrible edit and I trashed it - I would then have not have the benefit of an expert's comments. I understand you suggest in that case one should open a new thread in General section asking for comments. I have not tried it out but I will.

If you wanna go a step further, post a reply to the OP explaining why it will not be good and leaving it for another member...
I came across some requests which made me think "That is impossible to make", but someone comes along and posts an easy solution. If I had comment that it is not possible to achieve it, I would be exposing my ignorance.:D I give example of this picture 1288-Before-r6rveKrBncsmmcLg0lcKPa6QcPsG_G92g0XzLOr4IVY.jpg where the OP posted that the glass be removed and my thoughts were "that would be too difficult to recreate her left hand". But, someone posted this edit
1288-Other-6ILKIZy.jpg which struck on me like "Ah, such a simple solution, why did I not think of it before"? I am just saying that this is the reason why I do not post comments telling the OP why it is impossible.

No, and why...there's no such thing as acceptable...
It is good or it is not good, don't settle for mediocrity, have pride in your work.
If not sure of your work, post it in the general board section and ask for critique/advice.
Let's say when someone posts an edit, I might call it a 'terrific edit', giving it 95% score. Another more experienced person might give it a 50% score while yet another very experienced and skillful person might say "that is horrible, this image can be edited in lesser time and be made to look 5 times better" and give a score of 20%.
What I am trying to get at, is "acceptability threshold" is different for different people at different levels of understanding of the subject. A beginner is extremely happy at clearing a pimple on an clear forehead using Spot Healing Brush even if some of the reddish tinge shows on the sides but he sits back marveling at his work. If this guy is discouraged from posting that image on the forum as his submission, he would never learn. For him at that stage, it would be an overkill to start a new thread in General section to seek opinions of his work.

I would hope that the Free Edits section can graduate itself into a learning resource where there is discussion, critique, commentary while the OP can weigh in their own points, showing a client's perspective. I give another example of this post by Fog00 where the thread itself provided for an awesome new technique learning experience for me through just one question and one answer. It could mean lots of technical discussion into an OP's post - but the OP should understand that this is a learning site and that they should stand by and wait for those discussions getting better output for the OP. I would love to know your thoughts as well.

:rofl:Sorry, guys I have a tendency to convey a message in lots of words.
 
I understand what you mean, and everyone can be proud of you work, of course! what i was saying is that the pride cant be an impediment to post your work even if you know is not the best, if can you learn from it.
Yes! Besides, it is injustice to the hours you have spent in making an output which in your opinion is 'acceptable'. Of course, the OP would pick the best of these 'acceptable' options. Seeing the other options would give you ideas on how you can improve your work.
 
Well, the OP posting the request doesn't have interest in other members suggesting modifications or adjustments in his thread, he wants his request filled. He assumes he deals with competent Photoshoppers.
It also makes the thread disorderly.
I don't think it is a good idea to allow advice in the free request threads.
Imagine, you're filling a request and other members 'correct' you in that same thread. I feel it's not done... What impression would the OP have?
Therefore, if not sure about the work you did, post it in the general board, ask critique, if needed adjust your work and then post it in the free request.

Imagine for a moment that you are filling requests in the free request section and your work is constantly 'corrected' (you know what I mean) in that section in front of the OP, would you still have pride in what you're doing? I think you'll get frustrated and even stop doing it. We don't want that to happen so there comes the general board section...
I guess the OP should realise that this is a learning site, and while they get free edits on requests, the price they pay is to wait and let a technical discussion happen - afterall, that discussion is happening to give the OP a better result. It is best that the OP realises he is dealing with learners - if the OP wanted spectacular result, he/she would have gone for help somewhere else. Having said that, I am of the opinion that we are striving to give spectacular results here itself.

But, I also agree that it makes the threads disorderly. Some of really good discussions can be moved into general section for people to refer to as a library resource to learn from other's mistakes.
 
Its one way to see it and maybe it could happen, but knowing the people in this forum i dont think it would be constant corrections, and if the op enter a learning forum enters the free request and expect all the members to be 10 years experience photoshopers it's not a very realistic person... and for that you have the paid section. In my opinion the op could get a better final jobs and the members learn from it, the post gets messier i agree XD.
I am completely in consonance with that thought. There are plenty of threads where I asked an editor how they achieved a result and they responded there itself, rather than open a new thread.
 
Guys, I hear you all,

Most OP's have no clou what PS involves and they don't give a rats ass about it nor are they interested in how many years the filling member has PS experience. What they want is their request filled. The end...

But, and I'll use Sam's quote to describe the bottom line:
It's about the Free Edit forum not being the platform for improving your skills.
The Free Photoshop Request forum was originally conceived and created for our A members to emulate realistic job requests that they may encounter when working in the industry. It was never intended to be a "HELP" forum or a service. What is meant by a "HELP" forum? A help forum is where our A members would go to ask for and receive help like the General Photoshop Board/Forum. The free edit forum was for requests only. It was meant to emulate a professional interface/interaction between a client and a designer. We did not anticipate the problem we now face in that it serves as the forums primary source of member contribution.


If you wish you can reply to this but let's talk about the last part of my post #41 will you...
Being all time consumed in the Free/Paid Request Section who made contributions to the other sections?
 
I will summarise the above discussion and present my Point Of View in this post.

1) I note the concern that while some sections of the site like the Free Requests Section are getting increasingly more patronage the traditionally busy sections like the General PS Board which used to have lots of traffic (where people used to learn more) are not being visited, hence being ignored. I as a newbie on the site who is not nostalgically attached to the General PS Board have a question: Why not let each of the sections of the website stand on their own relative merits rather than put efforts into forcing traffic from a popular area to another section? Like I said, the help one can expect to get in General PS Board can these days be obtained with a simple Google search or Youtube Search, making that activity redundant. Having said that, I also note that the General PS Section would still be great for peer review of artwork where comments and suggestions can be sought. Now, this is my POV, and I feel admins are unduly worried about loss of patronage for General PS Board. Also, maybe they are a little rigid on "Free Requests Section is not a learning platform because it was not originally intended for that". I am requesting to let it "evolve" as per changing technology and not offer resistance to it.

2) In my opinion, allowing Free Requests Section for "technical discussion/critique/comment/help out" is alright even at the cost of a novice user OP being confused with all the posts. At the end, the OP is happy to receive his/her requests served. OP would not mind the inconvenience of a few posts of technical discussions. However, if the question is like "How do you use a High Pass Filter", it can be posted in General PS Board only.

The above are my opinions only and the admins who work so hard to oversee all threads, do their best to help people get more learning experience from of the website can decide what is best for the site and its future. Having put forth my opinions, explanations and thoughts, I now have nothing new to add. I like this site for its merits and ill continue my patronage.
 
OK, the staff appreciates all the input and it will all be taken into consideration.
 

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