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Some shallow thoughts on free work


ibclare said:
Well, I have strong opinions about doing logos for businesses for free. I know it comes down to member choice on any freebie request, but . . .

We have another such request just posted. I am staying hands off on comments for now. But if I'm not already on record (OK, yeah I am but to reiterate), IMO all business logos should be in the freelance section.
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Members should be aware that doing freebies like this, or work at a ridiculously low price, for businesses that should be raising funds for start-up costs, such as design work, makes it increasingly difficult to make a decent living doing freelance design.

A freelance illustration podcast that I've been listening to had quite a discussion on a very similar topic. Here's a link…

http://mchughstudios.com/ninjamountain_podcast/episode_120.mp3

The discussion begins about halfway through the episode. It's a crying shame that talented people like this have a hard time making a living.
 
Paul said:
This site is here to help.
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Help...exactly who Paul? The forum membership that put in time and effort here or the rest of the world that wants something for nothing. I don't mind doing some freebies if they are simple things and sometimes I like the challenge of trying to fix some of the images, but no way do I condone doing logos for free. If your starting a little business you need to be prepared to buy professional work and pay for it. Lord knows I work for free enough as it is.
 
On the other side of the coin.....

With today's economy, a lot of people resort to starting a small business on a shoestring budget preferring to use whatever funds they may have on necessities in materials and supplies. Design needs are the least thing they will consider to spend on. Good if they can do it themselves. If not, you'll find them in forums like ours.

I'm not saying that we do every free logo request that comes by. But rather, to use our judgement on whether the person should be assisted.


Case in point...

- Person A plans to set up a business which requires some kind of expensive equipment for day to day operations.

- Person B needs a logo to create a good impression for their home baked cookies.


Tho both are sure to have some funds to start the business, I may decide to help out person B.

And who knows... one day, I might drop by their full-size, thriving bakery and leave with a complimentary box of specialty cookies - bearing the logo, created for them by a PSG member , for free. My conscience (and tummy) feels good ...... lol.
 
End of the day...

You don't have to do the free requests or even post on the free request topics. But I personally don't mind doing some now and then.
Some free requests have actually lead to other work which was paid. Sometimes I don't even get a thanks lol.

When I do freebies, I tend to just do one version and leave it at that, no changes or adding to it. If they like it, then cool.
 
ibclare said:
ALB, it's "help ... whom!" :bustagut:

Sorry, too many teachers in my life growing up. I just couldn't help myself. Aunty Gramma(r)
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Not whire I live :lol: This is the land of lunch being called dinner and dinner being called supper and all kinds of things that violate the rules of good grammar. Please pardon my slip aunty, I'll try harder to adhere to my english education.
 
I used to do freebies, but after several "clients" kept asking for change after change after change, all on my time and dime, I gave it up. I blame myself for allowing others to take advantage of my generosity. It is true that I believe most of these individuals did not know and likely did not care about the effort and time it takes to create a viable product that I am comfortable with presenting for their approval.

Other factors that incense this issue is that any joker who can pirate Photoshop thinks that he is an automatic graphical genius, that everyone should be bow before his greatness and pay him a royal salary for his crayon work. And there are idiots that will pay him! The discovery here is that people will pay for work if they know they absolutely cannot get it for free. We now have an overabundance of "artists" and "designers" that have diluted the base population of artists and designers who have real skills and a true vision for art and design. This makes it all the more difficult for not only designers, but for their potential clientele as well. It is no wonder you have folks coming to this forum asking for free graphics. This is an unfortunate side-effect of the internet.
 
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I read a book about how to set up a Wordpress website and the author mentioned a website that used to offer tools to design a company logo yourself for free. They have since started to charge for the service. He also mentioned Fiverr.com as an alternative.

There are so many freebies or things priced ridiculously low online that a lot of people don't value the amount of work that goes into these types of things anymore. Some people seem to think that you just push the Easy Button and the computer does all the work. :rolleyes:
 
I'm suspicious some of the requests on this forum. Some posters kind of sound like they've been hired for a job, and they're in a bit over their head, so they come here to see if somebody will do their work for free. I also wonder if some posters feel that a job they've been assigned to do is too involved or tiresome, so they check in here.

Maybe I'm just too suspicious. :redface:
 
HomePhotoshoppingNetwork said:
I'm suspicious some of the requests on this forum. Some posters kind of sound like they've been hired for a job, and they're in a bit over their head, so they come here to see if somebody will do their work for free. I also wonder if some posters feel that a job they've been assigned to do is too involved or tiresome, so they check in here.

Maybe I'm just too suspicious. :redface:
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Why am I not surprised?

Based on reading between the lines, and the manner of how the request was written, I have that assumption as well. And its not only requests to do the work.... they're fishing for inspiration.

Which is why I will repeat .... we have to use better judgement based on how you read the request . And your action will depend on how you read and feel about the issue here (Freebie giving).

It still goes back to member's choice.
 
Inkz said:
When I do freebies, I tend to just do one version and leave it at that, no changes or adding to it. If they like it, then cool.
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To me, too much requested edits is an indication this may not be for their personal use thing.


My real clients sometimes asks too much for the amount of money they pay - it's common place thing. Whenever I give out a complimentary work to selected people here , I add the phrase - "Here's something to start you off".... They accept graciously with no statement or minimal comments added . Maybe a change of color....
 
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the ratio of the number of free, "just-do-the-work-and-give-me-the-results" requests to the number of "how-do-I-do-something" requests has increased dramatically over the last few months.

It's almost like the word has really gotten out that this is THE place to go for free work. When each of these people arrives here, the tone of many of their postings is often demanding and abrupt, reflecting such an expectation. It's almost as if they think that there is someone funding us to stand ready to receive and immediately process their requests.

To me, what really confirms some visitor's expectations is when I have gotten suckered into doing what I thought was a technique demo, but then receive an indignant private message asking me to remove the watermark.

I'm curious: Have I become hyper sensitive to this, or have others noticed this trend, as well? In any case, I know that I've certainly become much more selective, responding only to unambiguous requests for information on technique, rarely free work.

Just my $0.02,

T
 
I think you are onto something Tom. To follow you, one area of concern I believe to be germane to the problem is copyright violation. Since there exist no "real" taboos on the web, copyrights have no meaning until the owner takes legal action, and even then, results are inconsistent.

I mention copyrights because it is easy to violate these, even unknowingly or unwittingly so. Even though I have only been here a short time, I have noticed requests that involve putting one person face or head onto a famous person's body. It really does not matter if work involves a celebrity or not, but it is a valid concern that a person's photo likeness is used without their permission or without the original image owner's permission.

I read through all of the policy and guideline posts made by the admins, and none of them discuss copyrights, trademarks or other legal issues surrounding requests for work, be it paid or free. Look at deviantART. Not only does each member have to agree to the terms of service and legal terms, they must also acknowledge these terms with every image that is uploaded. No such creature exists here.

I know that the PSG rules say an admin or equivalent must approve all paid requests, but that does not cover all the freebie ones that slip into other sections of the overall forum. This opens up the website to possible legal action. I can tell you from experience that every website I have had to send a cease and desist order to violators of my copyrights, each of them took immediate action to remove the offending content. I have had to send these C&Ds to eBay, deviantART, Go Daddy and to a popular custom motorcycle builder who split from his dad's group. They all took immediate action because none of them want to end up in court.

I am probably overstating this issue, but I believe it to be an important one that should receive top level consideration in order to protect the website and all members who may be unwitting accomplices in copyright violations. I cannot say how to institute any such safeguards. I just wanted to mention this important item.
 
Thanks for your observation and comment, Crotale.

I have to agree that there is nothing in our forum guidelines or FAQ sheet that cover copyright issues. The documentation contained in these areas were created some time back probably by the site's original creator and/or previous admin teams.

We'll have a look into it and see how we could amend the guidelines to include a clause regarding copyright, trademark and related legalities.
 
Crotale said:
I am probably overstating this issue, but I believe it to be an important one that should receive top level consideration in order to protect the website and all members who may be unwitting accomplices in copyright violations. I cannot say how to institute any such safeguards. I just wanted to mention this important item.
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I wouldn't say that you're overstating. Your post seemed very reasonable and well thought out to me. :thumbsup:
 
re: Crotale's warning abt copyright - This was one of the first issues I raised when I joined this forum. We should be concerned about it. Even completely frivolous challenges take time and money to deal with.

T
 
HomePhotoshoppingNetwork said:
I'm suspicious some of the requests on this forum. Some posters kind of sound like they've been hired for a job, and they're in a bit over their head, so they come here to see if somebody will do their work for free. I also wonder if some posters feel that a job they've been assigned to do is too involved or tiresome, so they check in here.

Maybe I'm just too suspicious. :redface:
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You can't be suspicious enough...
...I'm new here in this forum, and I helped a poster to restore a picture. I put a watermark on it, but still I think now that it was just a waste of time. Why? The threadstarter never ever replied to the many efforts peoples took to enhance his picture. I think he just snatched the image he liked and disappeared.
 
To address Tom's point of increasing freebie requests . . . I've been here a bit longer and I don't see any more or any fewer of these, it just fluctuates. Now the crusty old lizard, who's been on the forum since it slid up out of the primordial ooze, may have more perspective on this, but the truth is, free requests were available on PSG before any freelance forum was here (so I have it from the historians).

Hoogle posted recently about the ongoing copyright issue on the flip side for the artist. That post is here, and I suggest reading it if you haven't. I doubt if theft of copyrighted material, like any other theft, can be done away with but I'm sure dv8 as one of our admins will look into it more. I imagine the owner of PSG has legal protection/representation. But I'm not trying to address the copyright issue; I don't know enough about it. The issue of big company's getting away with the unethical theft is the worst. But what else is new?

When it comes to using any pictures of celebrities, here in the US, most are considered in the public domain. If you're in the public eye, you don't have many rights about that. Now if someone takes a picture and copyrights it, that's another issue. I've read about it, but it's pretty convoluted even if it seems clear. As for little squirts wanting their head on an actor's body for their FB avatar, I doubt that this is going to make very many waves. But that's just my thinking.
 
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