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Some shallow thoughts on free work


Fatboy73

Fatboy73

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Just wanted to post some thoughts and experiences on free work for members as I know PSG doesn't encourage it, but doesn't disallow it.

1. I've been doing digital art for a few years now and colored comics digitally for a living for about 8 of those years. I've gotten screwed over more times than I can remember, and have learned the number one rule when people promise you money on the "back end" or in "the future", know that you are working for free. There is a 99.99999999% chance you will never see that money.
As a matter of fact if you want to get lots of PS practice, with no deadline, get something published for the world to see and work for free, Darren over at Bluewater comics will hire just about anyone and will be more than happy to make a profit doing it.

2. Before you believe the next sob story that someone is destitute and can't offer you any money, keep in mind that over the years I've had MANY independent, individual, comic creators as young as 15 able to work their butts off and come up with $500 to pay me to color their books for them. If someone has a solid enough idea, they can raise that on kickstarter in 1 hour.

3. If you want to work for free for the "experience" or for your portfolio be my guest and there are a lot of projects that are small or easy and no big deal. Just remember that if someone is always willing to work for free, no one is ever going to want to pay. A lot of people will always try for the freebie first, because they know the words to use to make people feel sorry for them.

I am not in any way completely discouraging freebies, charity work, or portfolio jobs. I'm just suggesting that before you blissfully dive into the next project that someone REALLY needs but can't pay for, you consider first if THEY are going to make money off of it and how many other sites they have gotten free work from before this one.
 
Nice idea, but at the end of the day members are free to choose what they do be it a freebie or paid only, and the site does not condone the belittling of either also.
 
:deadhorse::deadhorse: that's about all ill say about that,oh and of coarse I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a live horse today!
 
Unless you are doing the work for free, you should always wait for payment before sending the work without any watermarks.

I don't do it for the experience or for portfolio, just for the fun. It's impossible to get conned if the job is for free, and if they start being awkward, you can just stop.

There is as we speak, a paid job created from a dude who got a freebie. Something i don't think he would have done otherwise.

Again, sending work without a watermark is suicide!
 
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To me, even worse than the sob stories are the folks who show up on PSG, and without so much as a "please", a sob-story, or a "might someone be able to ..." type of courteous introduction, begin with the assumption that there must be teams of elves here on PSG just awaiting the arrival of their image. :-( , and that the work will be done precisely to their specs for free.

The other category of requests that I just ignore are the obviously frivolous ones, often, it seems from teenage boys asking for their head to be put on the body of some pop star. Of course, the image they supply is 3 stops underexposed, out of focus, in a completely different type of light, and from completely different angle and pose from the photo to which they want to be added. :eek:. These people obviously have no idea the amount of work they are asking for.

I usually don't even bother to comment on such requests, whereas I'll usually bend over backwards to help someone who obviously wants to learn and has tried to research the problem before he shows up here.

:jawdrop::jawdrop:

T
 
May as well start a forum based on this subject as well while we are at it with the topaz filters this will be discussed for a few days then it will fade away and in 2 months someone else will post another thread on this subject.
 
I can't pay anything... I can't afford Photoshop... I'm no good at Photoshop... I'll pay for future work...We're non-profit...
It all translates into, if someone will work for free, why should I pay or spend my time doing it. The only thing working for free will get you is another request for free work.
I've been ranting about this for a long time, but regardless, people will still fall all over themselves to work for free. The simple solution is, as I've suggested many times in the past, make it a rule that all work must be watermarked.
Even if it's a freebie, it should carry a watermark. At least you'll get some advertising for your efforts. If they want a non-watermarked version, they need to pay for it, simple as that.
This site could make it a rule that all work needs to be watermarked if they wanted to, just like with the freelance section.
 
This wasn't meant to be a rant on free work. I just wanted to post some of my experiences in and the area and a couple of "hey before you do it think about this" items.
I personally believe there should be an ever expanding, sticky thread with every bodies thoughts and experiences on working for free, for everyone to read through. It won't put a complete stop to people being taken advantage of, but it might make someone think before they dive into that free project.

No beating of dead hoses here...think of it as a simple yearly remembrance of what killed the horse in the first place. :)
 
don't be taken in by some unscrupulous women either..A few days ago, there was a young woman posted a request on here to have her person photoshopped into a photo with a well known performer. I forget what my reply was, but anyhow, I looked at her profile. Here is this vivacious young woman in a provocative pose. I then received a PM from her asking me if I would do it. I told her I would consider it but not for free. Well she wiggled around a bit but finally gave in to $25.00. (I'm sure she's thinking she is going to get it posted up online and then she could just grab it and that would be the end of it. Well boys, old LB here was born at night, but it wasn't last night. So I put the thing on an e-mail basis and I insisted she supply the photos, which she did. Gawd, the one of her was not even close to the profile picture, it was from a cell phone with her and another female that didn't exactly impress me as the pinnacle of virtue, but I did the thing. It actually came out pretty good. So I sent her a watermarked proof at a very small size and low rez. Make a long story short, she did pay via PayPal in advance before I sent the good one to her. She e-mailed back that she loved it but never heard from her again. So, she joined here for the purpose of using her female charms to sucker somebody into a freebie. (I doubt she did many freebies herself, so she probably figured out where I was coming from.
(If you mods don't like this story, feel free to delete it, but it is true)
 
Works fine for me ALB.

This subject has been discussed ad nauseum. I like Hawkeye's first line. It gripes me no end to see those comments (I'm no good at PS = I'm trying to con you) especially when like Tom posted, not even a please or a howdee do. I even get fed up occasionally and post to prompt a please for what it's worth. Not much. Love those groveling, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't think . . . but still no please, lol.

Well, as far as PSG is concerned, there will be no rule requiring watermarks on freebie requests, totally a personal choice.

I ignore a lot of them, especially the vain cell phone images . . .

The ones that bug me the most are businesses that come asking for a freebie and get it. I'm for demanding that all requests which mention that they are for a business be sent to freelance. Period. Every business has start up costs or they should forget about going into business. I wonder, if I come in to your auto body repair shop and ask for bodywork, will you give it to me for free just because "I've tried, but I'm no good at it?" But I guess even businesses fall into that grey area; if a member wants to do it, so be it. I don't agree with that, but that's IMO.
 
I believe there are better places on the internet to make money from Photoshop, and if that was what I was worried about, I would use their websites. This is a discussion forum for helping people with Photoshop matters, and will only ever get the few jobs we are getting at the moment, so if people stopped doing freebies, there would hardly be any content on the forum.

If they come here looking for a freebie and nobody does it for free, they aren't going to all of a sudden want to pay. They will look elsewhere.

Also, if I was in a position where I had to purchase a logo, I would go to a company dedicated to graphic design, not a place that gives help and advice on the software that is second best in the Adobe arsenal at making logos. It's best used in conjunction with other software like cinema 4d for example. Before anyone says anything about this last paragraph, just have a little think about where the PSG logo came from.
 
I do my share of freebie requests and there is no way I rely on PSG to make money, lol. I know there is no agreement on the freelance vs. freebie question and never will be. IMO, few small businesses will ever go to a design firm for a logo. But the idea that they can't afford $50 for a PSG member design sounds like bs to me.

On another wavelength, as I said earlier, I find it irksome when people aren't candid about their requests. I won't do those. Somebody comes on and says, I don't do PS but can you do this for me, then I'll consider it.

Statements like the following? Give me a break. If this person ever even touched the software for Photoshop, I would eat my hat (and I have quite a few hats).

Hi all..I am new to Photoshop and quite enjoying figuring out new things. I was wondering if there was a kind member who could place my face on another face for me. I have a basic knowledge of how to do it but cant quite get it right. I would very much appreciate it if someone could help me. Thank you :)
I would like my face (short hair) imposed on to other pic to give me long hair using either or both long hair pics please. Thank you
 
Awesome video! I believe there are more videos that showcase the ridiculousness of what clients expect us to put up with that no other business on the planet would do. I suppose though, if you were able to talk a particular McDonald's (for example) into giving you free lunch every day, would you ever go anywhere else for lunch?
 
I think that video sums up the freebie issue.... :bustagut:.

At the end of the day, it's left to the member's decision to do or not to do the request as well as adding the watermark.

And one should be wary of free requests involving logos, stationary and cards - anything business or organization related. If these people want to set up their business or organization identity, they should be ready to spend for it.

Tho I must admit, there where instances I've done a few free logos and stuff and was jokingly ribbed in PM by a few old members for it... lol.

But like I said, the choice is yours to make. And if you do decide to do it, be prepared for what the outcome may be.... either they made a profit out of it... or may have downloaded your image but didn't even leave a thank you..... used your image but claimed to have created it...... or worse, request for multiple changes. This last one, I may not oblige unless I'm in a REAL giving mood.

Some may do it for practice, experience or something to add in their portfolio. I may be in a freebie giving mood upon a successful acquisition or completion of a real world personal work project. But that's just me......

And moderators of the forum are also concerned of members taking part in freelance or freebie works. One reason why we are very strict with the quality of watermarks - most especially in freelance. We don't want requestors grabbing the work and having someone delete the mark or easily reproduce the image.


I will have to admit though.... they're getting creative in making requests. Some make it look like a contest of sorts........
 
Well, I have strong opinions about doing logos for businesses for free. I know it comes down to member choice on any freebie request, but . . .

We have another such request just posted. I am staying hands off on comments for now. But if I'm not already on record (OK, yeah I am but to reiterate), IMO all business logos should be in the freelance section.


 
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