Photoshop Gurus Forum
Welcome to Photoshop Gurus forum. Register a free account today to become a member! It's completely free. Once signed in, you'll enjoy an ad-free experience and be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Photography Starter Question.
- Thread starter inkpad.t
- Start date
inkpad.t
Guru
- Messages
- 1,016
- Likes
- 823
Thanks everyone...
The clocks my fav too.... That is with doubt going in a manipulation at some stage... here is the original of that photo i took. as i mention it is slightly off due to the building works being done on the right hand side when i took it... it was a real mess on that side. I did originally get the whole of the chimney in...
I Photoshop it to get rid of the debris on the floor and then man sitting on the tables right at the end of the pub... Also clone the area of the bin area on the left and made another advert from the original to cover the bin area, also raised the wall to cover that area as well. and replace the sky. had to crop it down to post it, just as i had to re size this one to post it.
MANY THANKS EVERYONE.
The clocks my fav too.... That is with doubt going in a manipulation at some stage... here is the original of that photo i took. as i mention it is slightly off due to the building works being done on the right hand side when i took it... it was a real mess on that side. I did originally get the whole of the chimney in...
I Photoshop it to get rid of the debris on the floor and then man sitting on the tables right at the end of the pub... Also clone the area of the bin area on the left and made another advert from the original to cover the bin area, also raised the wall to cover that area as well. and replace the sky. had to crop it down to post it, just as i had to re size this one to post it.
MANY THANKS EVERYONE.
ibclare
Queen Bee
- Messages
- 11,033
- Likes
- 4,638
Again, I think you are talking about the angle of the shot. It is hard to avoid that kind of skew if you are at ground level.
inkpad.t
I don't think the bin detracts, though the blue is a bit much. I would just desaturate that part. Also, the double advertising is kinda cheesy for the nice shot. If anything, I'd clone that out, but that would be too much work. Maybe desat that thing too. Oh, I know, truth in art and all that . . .
Thanks for showing us the whole building. Mucho mejor. (oops, english speaking forum lol)
inkpad.t
I don't think the bin detracts, though the blue is a bit much. I would just desaturate that part. Also, the double advertising is kinda cheesy for the nice shot. If anything, I'd clone that out, but that would be too much work. Maybe desat that thing too. Oh, I know, truth in art and all that . . .
Thanks for showing us the whole building. Mucho mejor. (oops, english speaking forum lol)
Tom Mann
Guru
- Messages
- 7,222
- Likes
- 4,343
Actually, the adjustment in a view camera to fix converging verticals is raising (or lowering) the lens board relative to the bed of the camera while keeping the lens and the back (ie, the film) exactly perpendicular to the ground, and the bed (or rail) exactly parallel to the ground. Such movements are called "rise" and "fall". "Swing" is adjusting the horizontal angle(s) of lens board and/or the back to not be perpendicular to the line joining the center of the lens to the center of the film. This, and the corresponding angular change in up-down direction ("tilt") are used to adjust depth of field, not correct keystone (perspective) distortion.
The solution in the case of little point and shoot cameras is to zoom as wide as needed so that you can get the whole building in the frame (top to bottom) while keeping the camera *exactly* level. If the lens on your camera can't zoom wide enough to do this and you can't back away any further from the building, zoom out to the maximum possible and correct the rest in PS.
HTH,
Tom
Tom Mann
Guru
- Messages
- 7,222
- Likes
- 4,343
PS - I just found three very nice articles on this subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/Product_Resources/largeformat2.jsp
and
http://paulturounetblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/view-camera-movements.pdf
About 1/3rd the way down the 2nd article is a section ("Vertical Perspective Control") that describes exactly how to set up a view camera to correct converging vertical lines in architectural photography.
Also, I think I remember someone in this thread wondering if this effect (converging verticals) is caused the imperfections in the lens of the camera. The short answer is, "no". This is cause simply and totally by geometric / perspective considerations. You would get exactly the same effect if you replaced the lens by a pinhole or (almost) any other lens. Good article on this here:
My old view camera is all packed up in the basement, but this discussion is tempting me to get it out and start shooting with it again.
T
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/Product_Resources/largeformat2.jsp
and
http://paulturounetblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/view-camera-movements.pdf
About 1/3rd the way down the 2nd article is a section ("Vertical Perspective Control") that describes exactly how to set up a view camera to correct converging vertical lines in architectural photography.
Also, I think I remember someone in this thread wondering if this effect (converging verticals) is caused the imperfections in the lens of the camera. The short answer is, "no". This is cause simply and totally by geometric / perspective considerations. You would get exactly the same effect if you replaced the lens by a pinhole or (almost) any other lens. Good article on this here:
My old view camera is all packed up in the basement, but this discussion is tempting me to get it out and start shooting with it again.
T
Tom Mann
Guru
- Messages
- 7,222
- Likes
- 4,343
Arghhh! I just came back to this thread and saw that I never pasted in the URL(s) of some articles on perspective distortion versus lens distortion. Here are a couple of good places to start:
http://photographylife.com/what-is-distortion
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/correctinglensdistortion.htm
T
http://photographylife.com/what-is-distortion
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/correctinglensdistortion.htm
T
inkpad.t
Guru
- Messages
- 1,016
- Likes
- 823
Thank you very much Tom... will look at those URL's when get time... this all a bit technical for me just at the moment... but I will get there in the end...
The problem I had when taking this photo ... you can't see it but the pub is at the bottom of a fairly steep downward road where it just about starts to level out a little, I had to lean back slightly and crouch down to get the angle of the shot, not much but just slightly. I was concentrating on trying to get the whole of the pub in, but there was a bin yard on the left that was very unsightly and wanted to do less work in Photoshop as possible and get a natural looking image. I could not move over to the right side of the road due it being fence off for the building works on another property. I went to the bottom of the road and look the other way back, but this would have taken in another building behind the pub and also part of the building works. so I was restricted ( I think ) on which angle to take the photo. I really wanted the photo because it was a lovely pub to get a nice image from.
Not only that I found it bit of challenge on how to get the best shot of that pub taking in to account what was surrounding it, and wanted to test myself on how to get it, thinking of composition and direction etc.. but looks like I got it totally wrong... never mind keep trying.
Thanks everyone so much input.
The problem I had when taking this photo ... you can't see it but the pub is at the bottom of a fairly steep downward road where it just about starts to level out a little, I had to lean back slightly and crouch down to get the angle of the shot, not much but just slightly. I was concentrating on trying to get the whole of the pub in, but there was a bin yard on the left that was very unsightly and wanted to do less work in Photoshop as possible and get a natural looking image. I could not move over to the right side of the road due it being fence off for the building works on another property. I went to the bottom of the road and look the other way back, but this would have taken in another building behind the pub and also part of the building works. so I was restricted ( I think ) on which angle to take the photo. I really wanted the photo because it was a lovely pub to get a nice image from.
Not only that I found it bit of challenge on how to get the best shot of that pub taking in to account what was surrounding it, and wanted to test myself on how to get it, thinking of composition and direction etc.. but looks like I got it totally wrong... never mind keep trying.
Thanks everyone so much input.
Tom Mann
Guru
- Messages
- 7,222
- Likes
- 4,343
Inkpad: "...I had to lean back slightly and crouch down to get the angle of the shot, not much but just slightly. I was concentrating on trying to get the whole of the pub in, but there was a bin yard on the left that was very unsightly and wanted to do less work in Photoshop as possible and get a natural looking image. ... so I was restricted ( I think ) on which angle to take the photo. ..."
Inkpad, you did a fine job on capturing that scene.
First, you chose a fine position from which to take the photo. My only suggestion would be to always frame scenes quite a bit wider than you may think necessary to allow for later perspective correction in PS, at least when you are getting your feet wet in this area. If you want to be a belts-AND-suspenders type of guy, take two shots, one cropped tightly in camera, and the other zoomed out, and pick the best after you process both images at home.
Regarding your comment about doing as little work in PS to get a natural looking image, IMHO, that is a complete red herring when it comes to perspective correction. Sure, one often doesn't want to use PS to change colors or tones excessively or you'll wind up with some pretty funky looking images, but for perspective correction, one has to go to pretty extreme lengths before this happens.
Also, w.r.t. changing the colors to compensate for it being an overcast day, I really like the warm colors that you gave the image. It looks very painterly, and if that's what you are going for, it is fine, but if one was going for more realistic colors, I probably would have only made about half the color change that you did.
Just my $0.02,
Tom
PS - I love how you hid the blue tarp by duplicating the "Bud" sign. I looked at your "fixed" version several times before I looked at the original and realized what you did. +1
Inkpad, you did a fine job on capturing that scene.
First, you chose a fine position from which to take the photo. My only suggestion would be to always frame scenes quite a bit wider than you may think necessary to allow for later perspective correction in PS, at least when you are getting your feet wet in this area. If you want to be a belts-AND-suspenders type of guy, take two shots, one cropped tightly in camera, and the other zoomed out, and pick the best after you process both images at home.
Regarding your comment about doing as little work in PS to get a natural looking image, IMHO, that is a complete red herring when it comes to perspective correction. Sure, one often doesn't want to use PS to change colors or tones excessively or you'll wind up with some pretty funky looking images, but for perspective correction, one has to go to pretty extreme lengths before this happens.
Also, w.r.t. changing the colors to compensate for it being an overcast day, I really like the warm colors that you gave the image. It looks very painterly, and if that's what you are going for, it is fine, but if one was going for more realistic colors, I probably would have only made about half the color change that you did.
Just my $0.02,
Tom
PS - I love how you hid the blue tarp by duplicating the "Bud" sign. I looked at your "fixed" version several times before I looked at the original and realized what you did. +1
inkpad.t
Guru
- Messages
- 1,016
- Likes
- 823
Thank you very much Tom.. as always its great feed back for me to improve.. I sat and thought about what you said about taking a crop photo then a zoom out photo and picking the best... it just never occur to me at that time and place to do this and I'm pretty annoyed with myself for not doing so... this has been mention to me before.. taking 3 or 4 shots of the same scene and other angles as well.
Again looking at the image I agree with you about the colour changes, I was so obsess about getting a perfect photo I think I got carried away a little.
Glad yo notice what I did with the bud sign, I also cloned out the man sitting at the bottom of the road on the bench on the original, and clone part of the car and road behind him, used the spot healing tool on the road to clear up the debris, but over did a little on the bottom right corner. I also higher the wall where that tarp was and clone out the wooden box's in that bin area.
I'LL have to check on the camera settings but i think i can have a grid display on the view finder, if so would this help looking at the subject in regards to the angle/perspective the building would be whilst taking the shots?. something I need to look at.
I have also taken some more images whilst on my travels and will post them some time soon... will not do anything with them in Photoshop except re size them to be able to post them, I think there not to bad.. ( but what do I know ) still loads to learn.
Once again thank you very much Tom for the advice and all those who have help in this thread... Thank you.
Again looking at the image I agree with you about the colour changes, I was so obsess about getting a perfect photo I think I got carried away a little.
Glad yo notice what I did with the bud sign, I also cloned out the man sitting at the bottom of the road on the bench on the original, and clone part of the car and road behind him, used the spot healing tool on the road to clear up the debris, but over did a little on the bottom right corner. I also higher the wall where that tarp was and clone out the wooden box's in that bin area.
I'LL have to check on the camera settings but i think i can have a grid display on the view finder, if so would this help looking at the subject in regards to the angle/perspective the building would be whilst taking the shots?. something I need to look at.
I have also taken some more images whilst on my travels and will post them some time soon... will not do anything with them in Photoshop except re size them to be able to post them, I think there not to bad.. ( but what do I know ) still loads to learn.
Once again thank you very much Tom for the advice and all those who have help in this thread... Thank you.
Last edited:
inkpad.t
Guru
- Messages
- 1,016
- Likes
- 823
Stupid me forgot to mention... One thing I have not mention which I'm glad no one has notice ( if any one has you have not mention it yet ) is that I painted around all the top part of the trees, I did that because I didn't get what I thought was a really good cut out when using refine edge when removing the original sky and replacing it. I used the magic wand to select certain parts of the trees, made a new layer and and fill the selection, then made that layer in to a brush, then painted around the top tree area, don't think that turn out quite bad ?.
Thinking of it now I would probably had a better chance using channels for that selection and might have got a better result.
Thinking of it now I would probably had a better chance using channels for that selection and might have got a better result.
ibclare
Queen Bee
- Messages
- 11,033
- Likes
- 4,638
As for the first, I think you did a great job on the top leaves in your latest rendition. Looks natural to me.
Of your latest, I like the first two for composition and color. I am not sure your architectural pics are quite working yet, IMO that is and I am no great photographer.
Have you considered portraiture or taking pics of people/friendsetc. going about their routine acivity? Or making a setting for a serious portrait that captures their individuality for you.
Of your latest, I like the first two for composition and color. I am not sure your architectural pics are quite working yet, IMO that is and I am no great photographer.
Have you considered portraiture or taking pics of people/friendsetc. going about their routine acivity? Or making a setting for a serious portrait that captures their individuality for you.
Last edited:
good to see your enjoying your photography , the three images show your improving all the time
ive forgotten if you have manual settings on your camera or not , if you do its really easy to improve the shots
first shot there is plenty of drama in the sky , i love stormy cloudy days , try adding an adjustment layer and darkening the sky with a little more contrast see how it goes
second shot , maybe again some more contrast in the rocks but that is just my taste but worth trying , the sky is what is called blown out meaning its white with no detail ( overexposed) , you can fix this in photoshop by dropping a new sky in , but since your learning photography we should talk about fixing as best as possible in camera without getting into to much detail which may confuse , lets do a simple trick which i use for high contrast images often seen with bright skies and darker foregrounds , i do what we call bracketing , my camera will do it for me if i select bracketing so it will take 3 to 5 shots with the one click all at different exposures then i mask the areas i want in photoshop to create a nicer looking image with full detail
if you dont have a camera with bracketing option which im pretty sure you dont, then if you have manual settings you can take 3-5 pictures of the same scene with different exposures , so in your case with the second image i would simply take four more pictures doubling the shutter speed each time so that it got darker and the sky came back , then you could use layers in photoshop to join all the parts of the images together to get full detail
its best to do this on a tripod so the scene over the multiple shots doesnt change , some scenes its impossible to get all the image detail from the darks and lights with one exposure which is why we bracket at times
image number three , well done , i like it , if i were to critique i would say you would need the top of the house and chimney so you have a nice triangle drawing your eye , this would mean you would get a little more of the nice blue sky and less of the ugly concrete , id also either move for real if possible or clone out the chair at bottom left , this is a distracting part of the image to me , i would also have moved to the left a bit and pan a little more right so the house is on a straighter angle and you would then pick up the full unicorn sign and tilt the camera a little left as well so the bottom of the door is straight ( if you have some sort of grid in your viewfinder this helps keeping things level i use mine a lot especially for horizons , these are the things you will start to see more naturally before you take the shot as you become more experienced , remember to really study the scene before you shoot , ask yourself what is the subject in this case the house , ask yourself what will distract the viewer from the subject , and ask yourself am i getting the areas of interest i want and remember to look further into the image and see if there are tighter pictures that may work , so in this case maybe a close up of the flowers , maybe a close up of the unicorn sign etc
oh and one more thing and im not saying you shouldnt do it but generally harsh sunlight like the house picture dont look as good as soft light so choose the time of day if you have that option , you might of been able to get this image at a different time of day with no harsh shadows on the ground added some fill flash if it were all shadow might of made it really pop
hope you get something from the critique and remember its not critisism its just possibly pointing out how to take your photography to the next level
ive forgotten if you have manual settings on your camera or not , if you do its really easy to improve the shots
first shot there is plenty of drama in the sky , i love stormy cloudy days , try adding an adjustment layer and darkening the sky with a little more contrast see how it goes
second shot , maybe again some more contrast in the rocks but that is just my taste but worth trying , the sky is what is called blown out meaning its white with no detail ( overexposed) , you can fix this in photoshop by dropping a new sky in , but since your learning photography we should talk about fixing as best as possible in camera without getting into to much detail which may confuse , lets do a simple trick which i use for high contrast images often seen with bright skies and darker foregrounds , i do what we call bracketing , my camera will do it for me if i select bracketing so it will take 3 to 5 shots with the one click all at different exposures then i mask the areas i want in photoshop to create a nicer looking image with full detail
if you dont have a camera with bracketing option which im pretty sure you dont, then if you have manual settings you can take 3-5 pictures of the same scene with different exposures , so in your case with the second image i would simply take four more pictures doubling the shutter speed each time so that it got darker and the sky came back , then you could use layers in photoshop to join all the parts of the images together to get full detail
its best to do this on a tripod so the scene over the multiple shots doesnt change , some scenes its impossible to get all the image detail from the darks and lights with one exposure which is why we bracket at times
image number three , well done , i like it , if i were to critique i would say you would need the top of the house and chimney so you have a nice triangle drawing your eye , this would mean you would get a little more of the nice blue sky and less of the ugly concrete , id also either move for real if possible or clone out the chair at bottom left , this is a distracting part of the image to me , i would also have moved to the left a bit and pan a little more right so the house is on a straighter angle and you would then pick up the full unicorn sign and tilt the camera a little left as well so the bottom of the door is straight ( if you have some sort of grid in your viewfinder this helps keeping things level i use mine a lot especially for horizons , these are the things you will start to see more naturally before you take the shot as you become more experienced , remember to really study the scene before you shoot , ask yourself what is the subject in this case the house , ask yourself what will distract the viewer from the subject , and ask yourself am i getting the areas of interest i want and remember to look further into the image and see if there are tighter pictures that may work , so in this case maybe a close up of the flowers , maybe a close up of the unicorn sign etc
oh and one more thing and im not saying you shouldnt do it but generally harsh sunlight like the house picture dont look as good as soft light so choose the time of day if you have that option , you might of been able to get this image at a different time of day with no harsh shadows on the ground added some fill flash if it were all shadow might of made it really pop
hope you get something from the critique and remember its not critisism its just possibly pointing out how to take your photography to the next level
Last edited:
inkpad.t
Guru
- Messages
- 1,016
- Likes
- 823
Thanks guys for taking the time to reply.. Not really thought about taking photos of people yet... as have no tripod I think i would struggle trying get a pic that wasn't blur by movement as well as i only have a point and shoot with limited options/settings... I also didn't wont to get to bog down with trying to much on too many subjects and the constant change in settings to get used to even with this camera ... I just thought i would start with landscape and building and get use that first then progress on to other things...
I didn't take any of the images into Photoshop as i wanted you to see the actual image as i took it... its easier for me in Photoshop to mess around with it.. but i do like the ideas you gave me on what and how to mess around with it. I,m still kicking myself over not taking the 3 to 4 shots.. but until i get a tripod that will fit this camera i will probably struggle.. having said that when i took the images of the rocks i sat the camera on a stone wall to steady it, so should have taken more of the same shot.
I did get a close up of one of the unicorn sign and took some pics of the flowers.. I will get them into photoshop and reduce the image size to able to post them to see what you think.
Thanks again guys.
I didn't take any of the images into Photoshop as i wanted you to see the actual image as i took it... its easier for me in Photoshop to mess around with it.. but i do like the ideas you gave me on what and how to mess around with it. I,m still kicking myself over not taking the 3 to 4 shots.. but until i get a tripod that will fit this camera i will probably struggle.. having said that when i took the images of the rocks i sat the camera on a stone wall to steady it, so should have taken more of the same shot.
I did get a close up of one of the unicorn sign and took some pics of the flowers.. I will get them into photoshop and reduce the image size to able to post them to see what you think.
Thanks again guys.
inkz although a tripod is a useful tool you really only need it with slow shutter speeds that come from usually having to shoot low light without flash , or deliberately trying to blur movement like running water etc
in the case of the three images i critiqued on there was probably no need to use a tripod looking at the available light , of course using a tripod even in good light when available is still an option to get really sharp images
being a point and shoot and having on auto im sure it will select shutter speeds that are easily hand held with limited risk of blur , good shooting posture and techniques will improve the sharpness of your handheld images
in the case of the three images i critiqued on there was probably no need to use a tripod looking at the available light , of course using a tripod even in good light when available is still an option to get really sharp images
being a point and shoot and having on auto im sure it will select shutter speeds that are easily hand held with limited risk of blur , good shooting posture and techniques will improve the sharpness of your handheld images
inkpad.t
Guru
- Messages
- 1,016
- Likes
- 823
Been Taking some more shots with the little point and shoot...hopefully getting better... took some of the photos at low light just after dawn as the streets were empty. This is just a few of the many shots I took... Some of them do have perspective problems and more.. but I found it difficult through the view finder of the camera even at low light in a country bathed in sunshine from early morning.
