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on giving hints or offering the full solution


MsOz,

It is quite clear to just about anyone that reads this forum, that you are a well articulated and intelligent person.

We are trying to answer a simple question, "Should we hint to the answer, and force the student to search for it?...or GIVE them the answer!"

Truly, hinting at an answer and forcing the search for it is far better than outright giving the answer away! When a person comes to any forum for an answer, is given a HINT to that answer and in turn searches for and/or figures it out, then the hint was a worthwhile expenditure of time! Because the time the person spent finding the answer will remember at least a little part of that process for the next time they want to do it! So, in turn, they come back to the forum for another hint to something else, and then embark on another search for the answer to the new question! Once again, time well spent by the teacher! Before long, the student grasps the concepts fully and asks fewer and fewer "stupid questions"!

Conversely, spoon feeding the answer is the wrong way of teaching a new technique! BUT, everybody learns at a different pace from everybody else!! Sometimes, this has to be done. I don't mean making the project for them, I mean giving them the simple steps on how to go about starting! Some people want to be creative, they just don't know, or are not sure, how to start! It's simply because some people are slower at learning things, or do not have the abstract thinking that you obviously possess!! Just because you have a more creative mind than some of your counterparts and colleges, doesn't give you the right to cast a bad reflection on those who don't! Doing so only makes your eloquent replies look more like the rantings of some artist that has no time or patience to teach! And isn't that the purpose of ANY forum -- to teach!? Some people that see it this way will make the bad decision of staying away from any forum you are connected to, simply because you have a knack for making someone feel stupid because you know more than a beginner! You almost made me feel stupid for asking, but I won't let some person I don't know, that has a glib answer for everything keep me down!

The reason I say this (rantings), is partly due to a reply you gave me in the topic "How do I create a Tribal". If I am not mistaken, I asked if anybody could POINT me in the right direction. NOT can somebody do this for me? I am somewhat new to PS, as I have only owned the program for about 3 months now, but I am not "Artistically Challenged" either! Your reply was to the effect, "That's like asking for Carnegie Hall!" I got the distinct impression that you are very proficient at PS and are tired of "noobs" asking for some help, as well as very glib! To me, if this is the case -- DON'T reply! Hell, if you're clairvoyant, simply read the subject matter and divine the worthlessness of entering the topic BEFORE you enter!

If you have not been back to that thread since then, I urge you to go back and check out page 2! I did create something! I used the ADVICE, not the available downloads, to make it happen! I figured out how to use the pen tool on my own and made my very first graphic in PS!! It may not be as good as what you may be able to create, but it is my first and it took me about 6 hours to create it! The way I see it, if I had spent even more time on it, I could've created something mind blowing! That is not the point!

I may have asked a "stupid noob" question in your eyes, but the advice I received was exactly what I needed to POINT me in the right direction!!

The Internet can be very intimidating! You try using "how do i make a tribal" in any search engine! I'll bet you come up with over 2 million possiblities too! I did try about 30 different links to no avail, hence my question!

And was it you that said,
MsOz said:
New techniques, I agree. That is how we all grow. But basic noob questions you should be able to answer for yourself, uh-uh...Show that you want to learn enough to make some effort beyond being able to type in a forum question in IM abbreviations, or worse yet, upload some image off the web and ask "how do I do this effect?" Like any skill, you have to take some time and learn it.
Click to expand...

Well, depending on the user level (especially for beginners) almost any technique could be considered a "NEW" technique!! Someone pointing a beginner in the right direction can sometimes be the most profound thing a person can do for another when he/she has the chance! Just because you think that someone asks for help that you have seen a thousand times before, doesn't mean they HAVE!!

Now, I apologize for ranting, but it is my firm belief that hinting at an answer and forcing a search, is far better than spoon feeding! [honesty]

8[ go gort, go! 8[
 
mflintjer said:
Now, I apologize for ranting, but it is my firm belief that hinting at an answer and forcing a search, is far better than spoon feeding!
Click to expand...

That's very nice. You managed to use all those words to agree with the overall attitude of this thread.

Regarding your tribal, I didn't want to possibly hurt your feelings by suggesting a simple search for "tribal scorpion," which turned up a good dozen or so tribal designs of varying complexity and style, so I tried a more genteel approach. I'll know better next time, thank you.

As regards your opinion on "hints," most posters don't want hints, they want the full answer, spelled out slowly, in detail, with the key point here being that the answer already exists, they are just not interested in taking the time/effort to "discover" what is already there, they want someone else to do the work and just give them the results. Similar to if I had simply pasted the links of all the cool tribal scorpion designs I discovered instead of "hinting" to you.

As for the Internet being intimidating, that is why I consistently recommend the use of a Consise Meta-search engine, such as www.dogpile.com. It combs through at least a dozen search engines (including the omnipotent Google), and displays only the top most relevant returns, with a minimum of repetition. The better your keywords, the more precise your hits, instead of trying to look through thousands, if not millions of matches (some so obtuse as to be useless), it gives you usually less than a hundred...
Just because a technique is "new" to someone inexperienced with software or Internet searching does not obligate everyone else to treat is thusly. If this were so, this forum would be full of tutorials on how to remove backgrounds, and little else would ever get done.
But again, I'm glad you agree with the majority of us on the inappropriateness of spoon-feeding answers... 8))

Now, if you could just tell us how one would "hint" to someone to read their online Help files (F1), or do a Web search for a technique that is already well documented... \:] :bustagut:
 
Sometimes, just sometimes I can understand the frustrating nature of trying to get people to use their resources. If, for example, we made as part of the registration to this site a pop-up that states in BIG WRITING something to the effect of "Although this forum is here to answer any questions you have on using your Photoshop Program, please hit the F1 button while you are in your program first. As this is the hotkey to your programs help engine! Sometimes your questions can be answered by checking here first! If that doesn't work, then revert to your owners manual (usually in a PDF file on your install disk), as this goes into better detail than the help engine! Finally, if all else fails, then by all means ask one of us here at the forum, we will be more than happy to try and help you (not do it for you) with your problem!! Once again, Thank You for joining this site and most importantly, have fun!!

You know, now that I think of it, we could make it as an auto-download PDF or Text document that saves itself to the respective desktop! Who knows!!??

However, just because I used all of those words to agree with the thread, my point was to say that we should help each other as we can. Imagine you coming to my work -- I'm a carpenter -- and asking me how to frame a wall together. And I tell you to go read it somewhere! As much as you would want to clock me a good one, you would still not understand exactly why you have to mark-out the studs a certain way unless I explained it to you! I won't do it for you, but I would actually show you how -- because someone (an old boss) showed me, and if he hadn't I wouldn't be able to build a house today! Get my point?

And I didn't mean to chastise you, if that is how you took it. I just wanted you to see things from a noob's point of view! I actually think you are well articulated and intelligent, I wasn't just saying that!

Give some thought to the above, you seem to know, or at least are more familiar with the owner(s) of this site. Maybe it is something that they can incorporate into the registration somehow!
 
JoeD said:
MsOz's favorite thread about her ultimate goal; "Stop the spoon-feeders!" [upset]

8} :D :bustagut:
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:bustagut: :bustagut:

If one were so inclined, they could simply type "PRESS F1 BUTTON ON YOUR KEYBOARD!" But that is not the way we want to treat each other is it?
 
mflintjer said:
Can somebody please go find him, he is missed!
Click to expand...
We finally tracked Gort down. He was jogging across country and had developed a growing crowd of followers who imagined that he was some sort of activist trying to make a point. We hardly recognized him as he had a long beard and a smiley face t-shirt. People kept calling him Forrest Gort while a little girl kept yelling, "Run Forrest! Run!"
 
Here is a prime example of following onw of the tutorials found here on this site!

I followed the tutorial on creating "Real 3D Type - Using Layer Styles"!

I created the 3D type and then made a few extra layers, tweaked the reflection and voila!!! :righton:

What do you think!?
 
MHO
The image is a bit small. It's hard to see/feel the 3D effect...sorry. The reflection seems a bit odd. Compress the height of the reflection to match the perspective of the text better.

The ground looks like cloth with and folds and stuff. If that was your intention the the reflection should follow the up's and down's. Just a thought

/Moltas
 
You know, you're right! I didn't think of that when I did it, I just wanted to prove a point with this! I just leafed through the tutes here at the site, found one that seemed simple to use (for beginners) and did something! It wasn't meant to be mind blowing -- just an example of following a tutorial on this site!

But yes, I probably should change the wavey pattern to one of a solid steel decking! OR change the reflection text to better suit the wavey pattern! :righton:
 
Yep I do :) One thing though. The shadow would probably have quite sharp edges near the object (the text) and get more blurred as it moves away from the text. That would help the text to "land" if you see what I mean. It is kind of hovering above the surface right now. To make it even better you could try to make the cloth cover the base of the text at some spots.

I made an image a few months ago to show a shadow fading. It has a lot of errors when it comes to the light which I haven't had the time to correct. It's not really important either since the main object was to show the shadow.

gradient_filter.jpg


/Moltas
 
Here's another perfect example of using a tutorial that you can find here at PSG!! Thanx to the Keeper for this tutorial :D :righton: -- it has for the time being, given me the ability to create "3D" spheres! That is until I figure out how to use a 3D rendering program!

I still have some tweaking to do to the background, but it serves as a great example to what you can do with PS with the proper tutes!

Here is the link to this tute, and Enjoy!!

http://www.photoshopgurus.com/intermediate/classy_glass_buttons.pdf
 
As usual, I agree with Klaatu's answer:
Summary: In truth, we are all students... just at different levels.
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In fact,? Klaatu is a good example --He is at the highest level yet he always takes time to help a newbie member in need. :righton:

Here's my suggestion: Since a forum community is comprised of many users, if you don't want to answer the question or consider it a stupid question - just SKIP IT and allow those who want to help newbies answer.? In many cases beginners are confused about the buzz words and need a few suggestions on what to input to make a successful search. ;)

I've noticed most newbies catch on pretty quick actually.? Most are sincere.

The only questions I avoid are from people who aren't earnest learners and just want free artwork done for them.? I? pass those without comment -- they get the picture pretty quickly. *pun intended*? I don't see a need to insult them.

If you are member who becomes impatiently rude to newbies, be sure you are speaking for yourself and not the guru community.? If I notice someone using the "we" form to insult, I will publically apologize on your behalf. 8))
 
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