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Need help! Changing to 2 colors in CMYK


J

jennifern

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Hi forum-

I hope you can help me in this last minute act of desperation!!

I have an invitation (front) which consists of white text, gold framed images, and a swooping "X" in gold. I've had a lot of problems with this file, and now the commercial printer has asked that i provide the file as 2 color, black and magenta, so she can bring it into Illustrator.

The swooping "X" is supposed to be gold. I've created a spot channel for it, but since it continues to come out as yellow (i've designated it as pantone 124 which is yellow, but since gold does not exist for CMYK, i've assigned it that number as reference).

The printer wants me to assign the "X" as a magenta color (it comes up as the gold we want, but prints out in yellow...go figure) and assign the framed image (also in gold) to a magenta color, but to keep the file in CMYK.

Because I don't have Photoshop in front of me and i feel like i'm going to pull my hair out, I was hoping someone could look at the snippet of the file provided and provide me with a solution??

thanks so much! :(|
 
Hiya Jennifer, I thought this was done and dusted a long time ago. ;)

I'll have a look at it and see what I can figure.

Your 'Illustrator' person should have been able to do this, he/she knows what she wants.

So basically what you want is the Black separated from the image and the rest combined into a single Magenta channel?

Al.
 
hey again! i can't believe that you remembered this file!

well, we changed printers....one who knows photoshop better since, at that time, it was the only program.

the "new" printer does not know PS but knows Illustrator!

(it's a never-ending saga!)

anyway, she told me that i need to keep it in CMYK, but the background needs to be a solid black, to change the "X" to magenta, and change the images to magenta. so i'm not sure if this requires the black to be separated and the rest combined into a single magenta channel...

the images (4 of them) are on separate layers. the X is on a separate layer and on a spot channel (so would i just change that to a magenta pantone color?).

i don't need to do anything to the white text....

basically, the gold color we are going for all comes from the image itself. in the beginning, i copied the gold color from the image and used that as the X font color.

your thoughts??

(thanks!)
 
:bustagut: Jennifer! How could I forget it?

Ok.

Open a copy, and in the channels palette:
Delete (fill with white) the C,M & Y channels.

In another copy:
Delete (fill with white) the black channel and then do a channel merge of the other CMY plus the spot 'Gold'.

Copy the new merged channel and paste into the Magenta channel of the first copy.

That should give C=0, M=merged, Y=0, K=original.

Now stick to simple jobs in future. ;)
(If this doen't work I'm leaving the country. :bustagut:)

Al.
 
thanks a million! i will try it out and get back to you.


if it doesn't work, i'm leaving the country, too...right after a martini!

8}
 
Jennifer, Hang on till I see if I can simplify this a bit more. [confused]

I'll be back!

Al.
 
Jennifer,

OK! Use a copy file for this.
Open the channels palette. Hide the Spot channel. See Fig.1.
Convert the file to Greyscale, Image > Mode > Greyscale.
The palette will now show a Grey channel plus an extra channel. See Fig.2.

The Grey channel will become the K channel.
The extra channel will become the 'Magenta Spot' channel.

Create a New CMYK Document, the exact size of the original.

In the modified file, with just the Grey channel showing, Select > All > Copy.
Go to the New Document and select the K channel.
Edit > Paste. The K channel should now fill with the paste.

In the modified file, hide the Black, show the other channel.
Select > All > Copy.
In the New Document, select the Magenta channel.
Edit > Paste. The M channel should now fill with the original Spot. See Fig.3.

That's it! The image will obviously show as Black and Magenta, but that's what the printer wants.
 
Here is the before and after.
As I said, the spot gold will now show as Magenta.

The black channel should not have anything in it where the magenta (gold) appears.

*Edit*
It might depend on which channels you have to merge, I worked the best I could from a converted RGB file, but the technique is just the same.
You might just copy the black and merge everything else.
as I say it will depend on your original file.

Hope this gets the job out your hair once and for all. :D

Al.
 
Al for president! :D

Great explanation and very detailed! :righton:

Gotta love this board, because there are so many people like you who are willing to put the time and effort into it to help others!

Bravo! :}
 
Excellent info Al :righton:



PS....I think the kilt may get you a chance at pres or first lady :D jk.



It seems to me a lot of printers get their clients to do the hard work first for them [stuned]



Stu.
 
Stu, A lot of printers get the customers to do the hard work because some of them don't have a clue beyond a two colour business card. Believe me, I've had to deal with them myself.

Al.
 
Rantin Al-

You are the best! Thank you so much for checking into the problem AND getting the solution.

I was able to get the channels separated. Now if only the printer will be able to work with it!!! I even printed out your instructions in case they come back with a "what did you do?"

I'll let you know how it goes...thanks a million! :D
 
Well, Hallelujah! Jennifer. :D

As long as you learned something from it and it gets the job done.

Tell them (the 'printer') nothing. Tell them that it's the first thing a novice learns in the trade.

It's called the "Integrated Wobble Sprocket Differential" if they really press you. [confused] :bustagut: :bustagut:

Be careful tho', they might give you a job as chief IWSD adjuster! ;)

Finally, find a printer that uses the right tools!

Al.
 
I dont understand why the printer couldnt print the pantone for gold???? You cant get pantones wrong, a pantone is a pantone!!!

Unless your color settings dont reflect the true colour and your going by what appears to be gold not what is gold????

Get another printer, if a printer cant work in photoshop....well.
 
I just re read your post and realised you have said you have used pantone yellow in your image for the gold??? I dont understand why you havent used a gold spot colour??? I am confused now.... [confused]
 
Stick Diesel-

It is very confusing but basically (as I was told) there are no "gold/metallic" colors in CMYK. I picked the gold color (sampled it and filled in) from the 4 framed images (which are in gold). Since I had to assign the "X" in a pantone color, they told me to just use a yellow Pantone color as reference.

It still boggles my mind...I just do what I am told until I learn otherwise.
;\
 
thats the thing....why they would say use a yellow pantone is beyond me.

A professional printer should say, use a gold pantone in your image and that should be the end of it. So long as u print seperations and take them with you so the printer knows it's in his/her court now cause u have done everything required and they know a pantone run is required.

I dont like ur printer :(
 
Me too I have questions about this procedure. Not about Al's solution (high quality, as usual), but the whole thing. In fact: I uploaded a remark, but deleted it when I saw that Al had answered your question.
Why use a CMYK with two channels empty, and gold in the Magenta channel? Not only there are indeed golden yellow hues in the Pantone series, but there are metallic inks for offset that would add to the gold effect (if you're willing to pay for it).
Basically, all the printer needs is two films to makes his plates, and who cares whether they're channels of a cmyk or whatever!
the only advantage of CMYK that I see is when you have used gradients etc to simulate a gold effect. But then you would need some yellow and some cyan too.

ahhh...professionals! :{
 
Erik & Stickdiesel, This is a follow on post from a wee while back, that's why I kinda hogged the show, knowing a bit of the story behind it.

The printers have kinda 'faffed' around on this one. You know and I know how it should be done.

The 'faffing' on this stage is that the printer does not have Photoshop and is using Illustrator for press prep instead. [confused]

I worked out this rigmarole to accomodate this shortcoming.
The original file was CMYK + 1 Spot channel for the gold.

The file is now being done in two plates, Black + Gold.
Printer has asked for it to be set up with the spot in the Magenta, so.....

The one reason I can think of doing it this way is it's being done on a digital ribbon printer with a custom Gold ribbon replacing the Magenta.

I've used this technique for vehicle graphics. (Matan Digital Printer)
Everyone generally assumes offset litho printing, hence some of the confusion.

Al.
 
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