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apply image to a mask + adjustment layers


J

jabar2

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Hi,
How do I use an editable adjustment layer(levels) on a mask after apply image on it. After applying image to a mask I go to adjustments layers on the top menu. After using let's say levels I can not edit it back. If I choose levels again it's not the same anymore. Is there a way of doing it?
Sorry for my english and thank's in advance.
 
Hello and welcome to PSG.

Quick question, can you explain why you used 'apply image'?

I ask because 'apply image' blends two layers together, so of course the levels adjustment layer would affect the blended image very differently than it did before the 'apply image'.
 
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IamSam said:
Hello and welcome to PSG.

Quick question, can you explain why you used 'apply image'?
Click to expand...

Well, you can quickly mask out lights and darks. I know it can be done by using blending options but with "apply image" you can get better effects sometimes.
 
OK, you have used the term mask twice now.................are you referring to a layer mask?

When you use 'Apply Image', the process does not generate a layer mask.

In your first post you state......"How do I use an editable adjustment layer(levels) on a mask after apply image on it."

In your second post you state........"Well, you can quickly mask out lights and darks"

I'm not understanding where the layer mask is coming from.
 
How are you applying an image to a mask? Please help me out here!
 
For the moment, rather than concentrating on the "apply image" aspect of the OP's question, I think the more fundamental question here is whether there is some way to have a layer mask act like a smart object in the sense that, like a normal smart object, one can go back and make an unlimited number of non destructive modifications to the layer mask in the future.

As far as I know, a layer mask can't be a smart object. This is why I referred him to the discussion where, instead of using a layer mask, one can use a clipping mask to get the same effect, and in that case, both the upper and lower layers (i.e., the clipping and the clipped) can be ordinary smart objects. In that discussion, although that OP explicitly states that he doesn't want to use a clipping mask (because he doesn't think it will work), the folks who responded to him point out that it can be made to work.

IMHO, once this aspect of our OP's question is answered, then the discussion can move on to what type of adjustments can be incorporated into (i.e. recorded by) a smart object. Certainly, levels, blurs, and many others types of adjustments can be incorporated, but I have never tried incorporating an "apply image" command. If nobody beats me to it, when I get a chance, I'll try it later tonight.

Tom M
 
Tom Mann said:
For the moment, rather than concentrating on the "apply image" aspect of the OP's question...........
Click to expand...
This is the part that originally confused me. We really do need to know what we are dealing with.

The OP may be using some kind of selection process from the image to a create a layer mask.

Here I used the green channel to create a layer mask.
Screen Shot 2016-05-03 at 5.56.06 PM.png

A layer mask renders parts of the image transparent, like this....
Screen Shot 2016-05-03 at 6.04.59 PM.png



Converting the main layer or image layer into a smart object and then using the the same selection on a clipping mask does not have the same effect.
Screen Shot 2016-05-03 at 6.06.36 PM.png

effect
Screen Shot 2016-05-03 at 6.07.02 PM.png
 
Hey, Sam - can you post the original image you used or a link to it? There are some tricks mentioned by the responders to the article I cited that I want to try.

Thanks,

Tom M
 
Ahhhhhhhhhh.....

Reversing the layer order does work!
Clip the original to the selected layer.
Screen Shot 2016-05-03 at 6.29.27 PM.png

effect
Screen Shot 2016-05-03 at 6.30.14 PM.png
 
Thanks for pursuing it, Sam! I remember using this technique a couple of years ago, and it was very handy to be able to non-destructively tweak the mask in many different ways compared to only being able to adjust the mask feathering and mask density using the "properties" tab or generating a new mask each time one wanted to try something different. It's particularly important to tweak masks non-destructively because they are only 8 bpc and after a few successive conventional (i.e., destructive) tweaks on one mask, all sorts of quantization / posterization becomes visible on non-cooperative backgrounds, LOL.

As I recall, at that time, I was doing a cutout of a woman, and her hair was giving me fits. Specifically, when the cutout was put in front of different backgrounds (eg, light, dark), by far, the easiest way to minimize halos around individual strands in both extreme cases (light and dark bkgnds) was to change the gamma of the mask.

So, now that we can make both layers "smart", the OP can try different adjustments on them. I'm not optimistic that the "smart" container will remember an "apply image" step, but perhaps other adjustments will suffice for the OP's needs.

Thanks again,

Tom
 
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Now that I re-read the OP's early posts in this thread, it seems to me that a good bit of his interest is in luminosity masks to selectively work on the lights and darks. To be honest, I don't see any big benefit to doing this using an "apply image" step.

All he needs to do is take one of the channels, make it a smart object, and then apply a "levels" or "curves" adjustment to it to emphasize one vs the other, or for that matter, he could simply invert the original luminosity mask and increase the contrast and get very nice selectivity that way, as well.

T

PS - At the risk of getting grief for recommending a 3rd party plugin, one of the modules in Tiffen DFX, Ozone, allows one to change color temps, contrast, gamma, brightness, etc. in ten different luminosity ranges just by pushing some sliders around. If he's doing a lot of work like this, DFX is not cheap, but it may be worth it to him.

PPS - If the OP is an old-timer, he may remember the company, Digital Film Tools, and their product "55 mm". Tiffen bought them about 10 years ago, and in fact, DFX's Ozone filter is almost an exact copy of their old and very versatile zone system tool. A nice review of Ozone is here:
http://outbackphoto.com/workflow/wf_a118/essay.html
 
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Hi there,
Thank's for your replies. I saw this trick on youtube tutorial. Let me explain to you what I mean so we don't misunderstand each other:
1.You open an image and copy it.
2. Create new adjustment layer(hue/sat for example) with a layer mask.
3. Select the mask, then go to image->apply image. Press ok and you have somethig like this:
2016-05-06 16 38 14.jpg
4.With the mask selected you go to image->adjustments->levels and now you can tweak the blacks and whites on the mask. But once you press ok you can't go back to the same state of levels you were at the first time.
And that was my initial question: Is there an editable way to tweak levels(or others) on a layer mask?
 
Please re-read posts #8, 12, 13, and 14.

In posts #8, 12 and 13, I described an alternate way (ie, a clipping mask) that one can achieve the exact same result as a conventional layer mask, with the additional benefit that the layer that is doing the masking can now be made a smart object, and hence, should be able to be editable in a non-destructive manner and should remember the various edits made to it, at least for some types of edits, ie, blurs and effects that can be applied through the "filters" menu as well as a few items from the image/adjustments menu.

However, in all honesty, I haven't taken the time to go through this process and specifically check that it will remember the initial conditions before a levels transformation to the masking level, but this should be easy for you to check yourself.

In post #14, I suggested a 3rd party plugin ("Ozone" in the Tiffen DFX package) that provides a vastly more convenient and direct way to selectively apply many different changes to any or all of 10 luminosity zones in your image, and it certainly has the capability to store the changes not only within one editing session, but even between different images.

I hope this clarifies the discussion Sam and I had in your absence.

Cheers,

Tom M

PS - Could you provide a link to the tutorial that you referred to? I'm curious exactly what he is trying to achieve. Thanks.


=========================================================================================
PPS - @OP - IGNORE THIS POST UNTIL YOU HAVE ANSWERED MY QUESTION IN THE NEXT POST ABOUT WHICH TUTORIAL YOU ARE FOLLOWING
=========================================================================================
 
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IMPORTANT QUESTION: Is THIS the tutorial that you have been working from? Or, one similar to this? If so, we have a major misunderstanding going on.

Tom M
 
Tom Mann said:
IMPORTANT QUESTION: Is THIS the tutorial that you have been working from? Or, one similar to this? If so, we have a major misunderstanding going on.

Tom M
Click to expand...
No it wasn't this tutorial, but that's the exactly same concept, that's what I mean. So you can use "Levels" to tweak the whites and blacks on the mask and I'd like to do it the editable way. Is it possible?
I don't think I'll be able to find this tutorial. Probably one from Phlearn, but on totally different subject.
 
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I'm sorry, but I have to be away from my computer for the next several hours, so I can't respond in depth at the present time, but the bottom line is that you have been expressing what you need incorrectly. I realize that English is not your first language, but I now think I understand what you really want.

Specifically, your questions and statements such as, "...can I use 'levels' to tweak the whites and blacks on the mask and I would like to do it the editable way..." are reasonable (but difficult) questions, but they are NOT what those tutorials are describing.

In the tutorials, they are NOT tweaking the whites and blacks on the mask (i.e., "of the mask"), but rather, they are using one mask (which stays fixed and is never adjusted) to control which areas of the image are operated on by various adjustments such as "levels", "hue/sat", etc.

In addition the tutorials use of the "apply image" command is needlessly complicating the process and making it difficult to understand. It merely puts a luminosity mask on a particular adjustment layer. Exactly the same thing can be done done in two key clicks.

Sorry, but I have to run. I'll get back to this as soon as I can.

Cheers,

Tom M
 
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