Problem with new layers from jpgs (p'shop CS3)

[jifjaf]

Win 7 64bit home premium
Photoshop CS3


I've created a background layer from a jpg, then added a 2nd layer which is a selection (lasso tool) from another jpg -N.Staffs (May '10).jpg. This layer’s fine – it inserts as I want it.

When I make a 3rd layer with a selection from yet another jpg - Daniolen (Feb '09).jpg I start having problems: If I make the selection with the lasso tool I get the selection within a square – not what I want at all (see attchments)!

It’s better if I use the elliptical marquee, there’s just a faint vertical edge at the left side, but it’s still not right & I actually want to use the lasso to get a more ‘freeform’ shaped selection.

This happens whether the file with the 1st (background) & 2nd layers is saved as .psd, .jp, or .tiff

I've attached screenshots of the two Daniolen... selections & of the properties sheets for the two files that the 2nd & 3rd layers were selected from.

Can anyone tell me what’s going on & what I can do about it, please?

TIA
jifjaf

 

[Steve]

Sorry Jeff I'm not following you.

If I make the selection with the lasso tool I get the selection within a square – not what I want at all (see attachments)!

Are you saying you used the free hand lasso tool and the selection came out square? (1st image)

What I'm seeing in both seems to be two layers with the top layer feathered on the edge.
They both seem to be selected with the marquee tools square and elliptical, not the lasso tool.

Can you post all the layers separately and describe what you're trying to do?

 

[jifjaf]

Hi Steve, thanks for your help.

Having reread my post I can see that it wasn’t too clear, so here’s another go……….

I’m creating a flyer/poster for a walking/hiking club. I’m using Morning sky.jpg as the background (layer 0), a lasso selection from N.Staffs.jpg as layer 1, & a lasso selection from Daniolen.jpg as layer 2. Both selections are made with 35px feathering. Since my post last night I have recreated the whole thing, this time with the background converted to a layer so as to give it 85% opacity (so that when I later add text it’ll stand out more clearly).

I’ve attached this file, so you can see that layer 2 (from Daniolen.jpg) has straight edges as well as feathering. Compare this with layer 1 (from N.Staffs.jpg), which doesn’t have straight edges.

I’ve also attached the original jpgs – maybe you can see something in their properties that will clarify this.

Just to see what happened I tried making lasso selections from other photos in the same group as Daniolen – the only one I have this problem with is the one other with people in it. I also don’t get this problem with lasso selections from any other jpgs from various other groups of photos. What the…??!!? This is all a bit bizarre, & annoying - the Daniolen picture is ideal for this project.

My original post also had a screenshot of elliptical marquee selection from Daniolen.jpg layered onto the Morning sky background – this one shows a faint straight edge at the left side. Better, but as I initially wrote, it’s still not right & I actually want to use the lasso to get a more ‘freeform’ shaped selection.


Cheers,
Jeff

p.s. i’m the guy on the far right of the group (red jacket & black hat).

 

[iDad]

just an idea, I would select those people more precisely remove most of surroundings then paste them use selection with the feathering option

 

[iDad]

View attachment 921
kind of like this...... but closer to the people

 

[Steve]

OK, your feathering setting is probably to high and you're feathering right past the edge of the image.
Either leave more space between the edges of the image or lower the feathering setting.

Is this what you're going for?


Make your selection with the lasso,
Inverse the selection Ctrl + Shift + I on a PC
Click on Refine Edge on top select the Red (Quick Mask) box, #2
Now adjust Feather but don't let it go past the edge of the image.

How did that work, better?

 

[Steve]

Almost forgot, after you're happy with what you did hit OK, then the Delete key

 

[jifjaf]

Thanks Steve,

As i suspected it was something really simple &, once pointed out, pretty obvious. But that's why you're the 'guru' & i'm not - 'cause what's obvious to you will probably leave me stumped!


iDad - i'm not sure if your idea to make the selection closer to the people was 'cause i had the feathering set too high - it would solve that, but it's not quite the effect i was after. it looks better on the black background here. i'm guessing you did that with a graphics tablet/pen...?

thanks for the help both,
jeff

 

[jifjaf]

Hi again Steve, i didn't really understand your instructions there - i selected inverse (why?) then R clicked & selected 'refine edge', but didn't see a Red (Quick Mask) box, so couldn't continue with your instructions. i'll have to read up on what 'quick mask' & 'refine edge' mean. also, why hit delete once i'm happy with my results?

instead i just did the same process as i did initialy, but with feathering set to 20px & i took care to not select too close to the edge of the image - it seems fine now.

J

 

[Steve]

Make sure the Layer selected is the layer you want to work on.
In my example it's Layer 1.

Select the Lasso tool and draw a circle around the people.



You've now selected the people, we don't want that, we want the rest of that image selected so press Shift+Ctr+I or go to the pull down menu and pull down Select|Inverse. Now you've selected the area outside of your original selection.

On the top you'll see Refine Edge, I marked it.
Click on it and duplicate the setting in this image.




The red area is masked, unaffected by the changes we're going to make.
Slide the feather slider back and forth.
At 35px it's past the edge of your image, that's your problem.
Slide it back to around 8, and click OK.

Hit the Delete Key, to clear everything outside of our protected area, the mask, then Ctrl+D to de-select the selection (get rid of the marching ants).

 

[jifjaf]

Great. very clear explanation.

thanks for all your help

J

 

[Steve]

Let me know how you make out Jeff.

 

[jifjaf]

Let me know how you make out Jeff.

Hi again Steve,

i've followed your instructions to the letter

after i've pressed delete to get rid of the unwanted parts of the image & clicked cntrl+D to get rid of the marching ants i'm left with the selected group of people surrounded on a black background....

i then get a different problem from before:

when i hold down ctrl & the L mouse button & drag the image into my main p'shop image (so creating a new layer) the black background goes too - see attached images.

any idea what i'm doing wrong here? i've gone through the steps you describe a few times now & it happens every time....?

I have found that if i follow the same process as i did initialy, but with feathering set to 20px & i take care to not select too close to the edge of the image it works fine. BUT i assume that you're doing it the way you described instead for a reason.... i'd appreciate it if you could explain this too

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Steve]

I have found that if i follow the same process as i did initialy, but with feathering set to 20px & i take care to not select too close to the edge of the image it works fine

How were you doing it?

 

[Steve]

Hi Jeff

Go back to message #10 and look at the 1st image.

I've already combined all the images on layers before doing all the steps I described on Layer 1 (the skiers)

You performed those steps on the image of the 6 skiers first, and then dragged it over.

"Not the same thing."

Try it again with all of the images already on 3 separate layers.

 

[jifjaf]

sorry, i don't know what you mean

just to experiment with what you're telling me, i've just created a whole new p'shop 'project' with compeltely different images

1) i opened a jpg photo in p'shop - the layers pallete showed that as background (with a padlock to the right) (s.shot 1)

2) i opened another jpg photo in p'shop - a new layers pallete showed that as background (i.e. not showing the first image) (s.shot 2)

3) i followed the steps you described in post #10 exactly

4) i pressed ctrl, held down the left mouse button (not ctrl+L on the keyboard) & dragged across onto the background image

5) i got the same results as i described/showed in post #13 (s.shot 3)


..................

what i did before you gave me the post #10 instructions was:
opened both images
lasso selected the area around the skiers
pressed ctrl, held down the left mouse button (not ctrl+L on the keyboard) & dragged across onto the other image
selected new layer > edit > transform > scale > ...

as long as i don't set the feathering too high & avoid selecting too close to the edge of the image this appears to work (see s.shot 4), so i'm not quite sure why i need to do it the way you say in post #10, even if i could get that to work.

Thanks, I really appreciate the energy you're putting into this, it must be pretty basic for you!

 

[Steve]

I think I see the problem.
You think I'm saying to make these adjustments before combining them, I'm not.

what i did before you gave me the post #10 instructions was:
opened both images
lasso selected the area around the skiers
pressed ctrl, held down the left mouse button (not ctrl+L on the keyboard) & dragged across onto the other image

What I said was:
"Make sure the Layer selected is the layer you want to work on.
In my example it's Layer 1.", not "open both images".

All of the images should be combined as individual layers in a single file before you do anything else.
I'm working on 1 of 3 layers.

Take a look at the first image in #10 again.




If you're making these adjustments before you Ctrl+Drag you'll get the vignetting.

It seems you were already doing what I suggested but feathering to much.
When you use Refine Edge you should view it in such a way as to see what the effect is going to be.

I find using Quick Mask the best.

 

[jifjaf]

I see what you mean now about combining all images as separate layers in one file 1st, then doing the lasso > ctrl+shift+I > etc sequence.

So, is there any particular reason for doing it this longer & more complicated way instead of:

1) opening both images
2) selecting the needed area in one image (taking care not to feather too much or select too close to the edge)
3) holding down ctrl & the left mouse button (not ctrl+L on the keyboard) & dragging across onto the other image

as I described at the end of post #16?

 

[Steve]

The whole point I was trying to make right from the beginning is how to get a good feathered selection.
You say you select, feather and drag to a new file, you never told me how you're doing the feathering.

If you're using Select|Modify|Feather or Alt+Ctrl+D, you're guessing.
The larger the image the larger that number will be.
There is no right number.
8px may be to much on a small image and 100px may not be enough on a large image.

If you're using Refine Edge you can see what you're doing, how that feather will work, whether you've gone too far or not enough.
Unfortunately by not inverting the selection like I had mentioned you can't get a smooth feather, you're working backwards.

I tried doing it your way, I couldn't get a result I was happy with.

 

[jifjaf]

i originally did the feathering by setting it on the options bar, i didn't know about refine edge - i am VERY new to p'shop!

i've now done it by the invert selection method you described & it works fine - i can see how using 'refine edge' gives more control too. i did notice that the feather setting box on the options bar doesn't change when the feather setting is changed in 'refine edge' or vice versa...what's the relationship between the two?

thanks for your patience & help,

Jeff