I'm a Little Troubled....

[Sierraccr]

After a fairly lengthy absence, I came back to my favorite Photoshop forum a few weeks ago. I have been troubled by the change.

I originally joined PSG several years ago for one reason and one reason only. It was the friendliest, most inclusive forum on the net. Unlike other forums, everybody was made to feel welcome and included and even newbies weren't afraid to say or do the "wrong" thing or risk getting dogpiled by the regulars. If someone wanted to post a picture and see what the gurus could do, most of us were willing to help if it wasn't too big a job. It was loads of fun, everybody learned something, and people were helped.

Since I've been back I've seen several people come on with requests who were dealt with rather brusquely. Like the girl who recently asked for a snake to be taken out of a picture. The poor girl felt she had done something wrong just by asking the question. Others will read that and hesitate before posting at all and we will be the poorer for it.

New people are the lifeblood of any forum, and on a photoshop forum doing little projects are a way to learn new techniques. I'm concerned that PSG will follow in the footsteps of other sites and become just a place for the regulars to hang out and pick up some paying work while loftily pointing out the forum rules to anyone else who posts. We're leagues away from that point, I hasten to add - this is still the best Photoshop forum on the net. I just don't want us to even head down that road.

I'm not sure what the answer is except that maybe we can all try to see our posts through the eyes of a first-time poster? Or am I really off-base?

 

[Hoogle]

I am in agreement have brought this issue up several times,

However I do agree with some of it and disagree with other aspects.

But the truth is people abuse the free image edits, As long as there is no way it can be used for malicious or faking etc which I may lean towards that snake pic being borderline as we do not know if the OP is the girl in the picture and what the plain bit of paper was going to be edited into afterwards.

I stick by the original option if you would like to help out and do the edit then feel free if your not interested then stay away from the thread.

But there is a fact we are not a free image edit site but rather a teach and assist rather than freeload.

I personally do not have any problem with free image edits and if I feel the thread is going unnecessarily sour I will jump in.

Each to their own

 

[ALB68]

Well, I do a good many freebies, and most times don't mind doing them (my prerogative to work on them or pass). So many of these kids come in here and ask for this work without any regard or knowledge as to what is involved. Then, after getting a free edit, come back and "look a gift horse in the mouth" and request additional edits. I think it is important that the forum does have a set of rules and the newbies coming in and bringing these, be made aware of what they are. I have no problem with telling them, and I do not believe I have seen any statements to OPs that were less than courteous.
My biggest gripe with the forum is the way freelance is handled. I think everybody that wants to work on a freelance job should be given the opportunity without having to go and sell the deal to the OP, most of the time via PM or email. I think all work should be posted online and the OP choose from it and pay based on the fee rules. I realize that it is the OPs option as to who to hire in his work environment, but if he wants to do that, then go hire someone that isn't being solicited from a public forum. Just my two cents.

 

[dv8_fx]

To add to what Hoogle mentioned....

Being a friendly and helpful forum is one part of the equation. We should also be a RESPONSIBLE forum.

We take a cautionary approach to requests. As pointed out, some requests may be used for wrongful use or abuse aimed at causing embarrassment to the person/s in the image. The problem is... how do we know the OP is the person in the image?

Even a simple remove the snapchat banner.... some members find it bothersome to do when all it takes is for the person to turn off the application from their smartphones. Then again... what if the person in the image is not the person who made the request? Apart that it's a way of life with the sexting generation, the banner may well be an indirect or subsequent security purpose. Having it removed is like having a watermark removed. What if you're removing a banner for a prowler's drooling purposes.... .

There have been many instances when the request is obviously for commercial use. If we allowed this, such people will beat a path to our doors. Who wouldn't want a freebie design for peanuts that would have cost them hundreds of dollars had they employed a designer in the real world or at other freelance sites.

And this will deny possible business from our freelance section.


I agree that new people are the lifeblood of a forum. But we don't have to count visitors who come for requests as their visit is generally a one-time thing. Unless they want more freebies....

I personally prefer having people like you, Sierraccr... new or old memberse willing to devote their personal effort and internet time in helping people who come to the forum - with either freebie requests or wanting PS knowledge.

 

[dv8_fx]

I will not be specific.... but if you were to take one of the past "frivolous" request images granted here and make a search in the net for it, you'll find that it had been the subject of abuse in other sites.

And the image had it's beginnings here at PSG........... tell me... is it worth it at our expense?

 

[dv8_fx]

My biggest gripe with the forum is the way freelance is handled. I think everybody that wants to work on a freelance job should be given the opportunity without having to go and sell the deal to the OP, most of the time via PM or email. I think all work should be posted online and the OP choose from it and pay based on the fee rules. I realize that it is the OPs option as to who to hire in his work environment, but if he wants to do that, then go hire someone that isn't being solicited from a public forum. Just my two cents.

There was a time when freelance activity took place in the thread. Then came instances of OP's citing personal reasons why they can't post images or prefer dealing via PM. From there, freelancers took it as a cue to follow.

It's no different with other freelance design sites. Offer is posted , Fr4eelancers are required to contact the OP and give details of their skill and price bid, OP makes a choice who to award the job.

In a way, it's safe for both parties ( but most especially the designer) as designs do not appear in the forum which can be seen by passerbies and lurkers out for design ideas and copy them. You could imagine the number of submission entries exposed in a thread for everyone to see - easy pickings for piranhas out there.


The forum serves as a place where customer and freelancer to meet. From thereon, it's a matter of trust that the freelancer will deal honestly and professionally with the client and not stain the forum's name.

But it's also good to have activity in the thread. At least we can moderate the dealings. If you feel the OP may be open to select from a range of submissions, then break the ice by asking the client in thread. If he accepts, good...... if not, go with the flow.....

 

[Hoogle]

Well I have come up and tested a solution regarding the freelance however we are unable to implement it as of yet because the only person that can upload the files and apply the perms is AWOL

 

[Sierraccr]

It's not the doing - or not doing - of freebies that troubles me. That one kid who wanted us to help him cheat on a test, for example. No way any of us would actually have done such a thing and posted it (although some of us might have tried to do it just for practice in the privacy of our computers). Some of us use Photoshop to make money, for others it's a hobby, and still others are learning to use it in order to make a career. Nobody should expect to come on this forum and get free image work done. If we feel like it, we'll do it. If not.....not.

I'm more concerned with the scolding tone. No one person is guilty, so please don't think I'm aiming this at anyone in particular. I think I'd just like to see the "kinder, gentler" PSG that I joined in 2011. You don't want to do a free image? No worries - just don't do it.

 

[ALB68]

"I'm more concerned with the scolding tone. No one person is guilty, so please don't think I'm aiming this at anyone in particular. I think I'd just like to see the "kinder, gentler" PSG that I joined in 2011. You don't want to do a free image? No worries - just don't do it. "
I think you may be over-reacting a little bit. I spend a lot of time looking at this forum and I always look at edit requests. I like to do them to pass the time on days when I don't have paid work. I have yet to see a scold as you speak of, maybe with the exception of this morning with the snake edit. (Which I did, by the way and posted it with no replies,by the way). IamSam, ibClare, Hoogle and others are usually very polite with their initial comment and do state the truth about our purpose. You have been away for awhile, and during that period, we seemed to be getting more and more frivolous requests, subsequently, to curtail some of it, the statement about the forum purpose etc was started. I don't really have an opinion about it, one way or the other, but if it's what the powers that be want, it suits me. As to being kinder and gentler, I see kind and gentle here all the time, tons of it, with free edits, tutorials on a specific issue, and some really good solutions to issues the OP's have. I have been a member here for about a year and a half and it's still just as good as ever!

 

[IamSam]

Since I've been back I've seen several people come on with requests who were dealt with rather brusquely. Like the girl who recently asked for a snake to be taken out of a picture. The poor girl felt she had done something wrong just by asking the question. Others will read that and hesitate before posting at all and we will be the poorer for it.

This is an excerpt from a recent Pm on the matter of the Snake Edit request that I wrote earlier before I read this thread. It has been edited from the original.

It would be completely naive of any of us to assume that the innocent person posting this request is the actual person in the photo. There's simply no way for us to make that determination. Bare in mind that the internet provides complete anonymity, boys can be girls and visa versa, pedophiles can be age appropriate peers, and mean girl bullies can be sweet and seemingly innocent when requesting an edit of one of their targets.

All the OP need do is take another photo holding the paper? Chances are, if there's any rationale against the most reasonable solution by the OP, then I suspect the truth is being a little shrouded.

I'm being cautious as I think we all should. There's really no need for anyone to unknowingly contribute to what could possibly be deception and the exploitation of others. I have a daughter. I hope that there are reasonable, responsible adults in her life that will look out for her best interests just as we here in this forum should consider those of innocent people who may be the focus of foul intention.

I don't mind free edit requests at all and I have and will continue to help or do them. I don't care or mind if anyone does this edit for the OP. I have had my say in this request and I will continue to point out the obvious problems with future and similar requests as well.

You don't want to do a free image? No worries - just don't do it.

I have and will continue to refrain from commenting or participating on any and all reasonable free edit requests that I have no interest with. However, I will continue to speak out against questionable edits that can be potentially embarrassing or harmful.

 

[Sierraccr]

OK, I can see that people are getting upset and angry. That was honestly not my intent. Nor do I question anyone's motives. I sincerely believe that everyone here (myself included) only has PSG's best interests at heart. We ALL just want this to continue to be the best forum it can possibly be.

And Sam - for the record - I did not have you in mind when I made that statement.

In any event, my attempt to help has gone badly awry. My apologies. I should not have spoken up, and I won't again.

 

[IamSam]

Sierra you have no reason to apologize for speaking up and I certainly hope that you will feel free to do so in the future. We all have a right to speak our minds here. Your comments, opinions, and participation are important to all of us. Just remember, these situations can be multifaceted. I feel that your misreading our comments as being upset or angry. Speaking for myself, I am neither and I don't read it in any of the other comments as well.

In head of your concerns, I personally will try to be much more tactful with future requests of this type.

 

[dv8_fx]

OK, I can see that people are getting upset and angry. That was honestly not my intent. Nor do I question anyone's motives. I sincerely believe that everyone here (myself included) only has PSG's best interests at heart. We ALL just want this to continue to be the best forum it can possibly be.

And Sam - for the record - I did not have you in mind when I made that statement.

In any event, my attempt to help has gone badly awry. My apologies. I should not have spoken up, and I won't again.

It is here that I have to say that no one in the forum is hindered from speaking out their minds. Everyone's feedback is much appreciated and we take note of these.

If something can be done to improve the forum based on your comments, it will be done. But don't expect change to occur overnite.


Sierraccr... don't feel that your attempt has gone awry. There's nothing to apologize for. It's better to speak out now or forever hold your peace.

 

[MikeMc]

OK, I can see that people are getting upset and angry. That was honestly not my intent. Nor do I question anyone's motives. I sincerely believe that everyone here (myself included) only has PSG's best interests at heart. We ALL just want this to continue to be the best forum it can possibly be.

In any event, my attempt to help has gone badly awry. My apologies. I should not have spoken up, and I won't again.

I wouldn't say you need to apologize, I also can't see much anger, BUT I do see frustration here. Newbies who do not even have PS,asking for a free edit, then whine about it. Many of us are just plain tired of those people, who with one post get rude and demanding.

I think of doing these edits for practice, but I don't like to watermark them...Then they show up elsewhere?

So Sierraccr[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]

I do agree we have been getting a bit crusty, Thanks for pointing it out. We can try to be nicer! ​