How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D model)?

[I_am_magic]

Without effects (blending & material generated normals from diffuse):

and with:


Does anyone knows how I can merge these generated by photoshop into the texture? The texture:

I've looked around on the internet and I couldn't find the answer anywhere. Is this even possible?

UPDATE:

More information for those who don't know what i'm talking about:



Merge those with the Diffuse texture.

 

[MrToM]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Although I understand what this is, (3dsMax user for too many years), your question is still a little fuzzy.

Its unclear exactly what you have, what you want to do with it, (merge?), what application its from and for and what your ultimate goal is.

I assume you have a bunch of images with which you want to do something with....in Photoshop, but exactly what...

...hold the phone...

...you've just added something...

Let me read that and I'll be back.

Regards.
MrToM.

 

[I_am_magic]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

My goal is a retexture. But i'm currently struggling with these blending effects and generated normals. I just have no idea how to merge them altogether into one texture.

I appreciate your attention and hopefully you will be able to help me out with this one

 

[MrToM]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Right.....I may be totally wrong here but lets give it a go.

The 'effects' you have added to 'Layer 1' are NOT part of the material applied to the object. These 'fx' are applied to the LAYER as a whole and will be effective as a 2D 'fx' regardless of the orientation of the model.

For eg....a 'dropshadow' fx will create a shadow based on the final '2D' view of the model.
Your 'inner shadow' is also just applied to the inside edge of the 2D image.....wherever you position the model thats the 'view' that these 'fx' use.



If you want these 'fx' to be applied to the material then you'll have to 'Edit' the material maps and add any of the 'layer effects' to those....but it wont be as easy as just adding an 'fx' to the layer.....you'll have to split it up into its component parts and add the 'layer effect' to each part.

Remember....a '3D' object in PS is just an image like any other 2D image on a layer.....with the added bonus of being able to move, rotate and scale it, add materials and lighting...even movement....but it still just produces a 2D image on a layer.

With that in mind ANY 'fx' you add to the layer affect the pixels on that layer just like any other pixels on any other layer.....no different.

Sorry if that's way off base.

Regards.
MrToM.

 

[I_am_magic]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Thanks for making it clear, but I lack the knowledge on how to apply the 'layer effects' to the base texture. Like you said; that one is applied in 3D space.

This is what I got:



That's just the base textures + generated normals (3D space)

and then this was in psb format:


Which is supposed to be the generated normals. you can see the difference between the base texture and the base texture with normals applied to it.

I appreciate your help, but can you help me a bit more? As in instructions? I'm not that familiar with photoshop or any graphical editor for that particular matter.

Once again to make it clear: I eventually need a texture format with all these merged together.

 

[MrToM]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

...Thanks for making it clear...

No worries...

...I appreciate your help, but can you help me a bit more?...

Of course!
That's what the forum is for!


I'm still unsure as to what it is that you want to 'merge'.....you can't merge the 'normal' map as its used in the 3D app to displace the mesh.....likewise in PS...as in you latest posted image.

You have that as a PSB file so you can just save that out to whatever format you need and use it in whatever 3D app you are using....and possibly 'bake' it there too.

As to the other 'effects' you have in your layers panel, well, as I've said, you'll have to add those to each part of your 'diffuse' map.

That can be done easily in PS if thats what you need but the 'normal' map is completed.....even though it bears no relation to the actual model.

You've said you're not that familiar with PS and that's fine, but are you familiar with how maps work in 3D applications...especially the 'normal' map?

Just trying to figure out how 'deep' to go into it without confusing you even more.

Regards.
MrToM.

 

[I_am_magic]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

I'm still unsure as to what it is that you want to 'merge'.....you can't merge the 'normal' map as its used in the 3D app to displace the mesh.....likewise in PS...as in you latest posted image.

You have that as a PSB file so you can just save that out to whatever format you need and use it in whatever 3D app you are using....and possibly 'bake' it there too.

As to the other 'effects' you have in your layers panel, well, as I've said, you'll have to add those to each part of your 'diffuse' map.

That can be done easily in PS if thats what you need but the 'normal' map is completed.....even though it bears no relation to the actual model.

Well i'm not so familiar with mapping either...

I can describe the situation a bit more detailed I guess.

I have a 3D model (.obj) and a texture (.tga) which I also showed on this thread.

Isn't there any way to 'convert' the 'normal' map (and effects) in 2D so it will overwrite/ merge with the texture? e.g: when you're painting on the 3D model it will be directly on the texture of the diffuse. but in the other hand when you add effects and 3D generated normals it won't add it to the texture. That's my goal.

are you familiar with how maps work in 3D applications...especially the 'normal' map?

I lack a lot of 'design-skill' knowledge. especialy for 3D obj's. I have a sense of how it works, but a little more information about it can't hurt.

 

[MrToM]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

...Well i'm not so familiar with mapping either...

Not a problem.

...I have a 3D model (.obj) and a texture (.tga) which I also showed on this thread...

With ya so far.....

...Isn't there any way to 'convert' the 'normal' map (and effects) in 2D so it will be overwrite/ merge the texture?...

Like I said, you already have the 'normal' map you just need to save it out for use with your 3D application.

The 'normal' map is used to 'displace' the mesh at render time from within the 3D environment, its not normally used to create 'other' maps. It could be, as could any image, but why would you want to?

...e.g: when your painting the 3D model it will be directly on the texture of the diffuse...

This can be done is Photoshop if that's what you want to do although its usually easier to just paint on the map rather than the model.....but yeah, its possible...just select the paintbrush, a colour, and start painting on the model.....but I'll warn you....its very erratic.

Once you've finished 'painting' on the model, double click the 'diffuse' map under 'Textures' in the layers panel to open it in another window.

From here you can save it out. If the format you need is listed then fine, but if not save as a PSD file. From the PSD you can then save out to whatever format you need.

...but in the other hand when you add effects and 3D generated normals it won't add to the texture. That's my goal...

Thats Ok then, because they won't be added to the map.....any of them.

Does that make more sense?

Its not an easy topic to explain concisely, sorry.

Regards.
MrToM.

 

[I_am_magic]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Not a problem.



With ya so far.....



Like I said, you already have the 'normal' map you just need to save it out for use with your 3D application.

The 'normal' map is used to 'displace' the mesh at render time from within the 3D environment, its not normally used to create 'other' maps. It could be, as could any image, but why would you want to?



This can be done is Photoshop if that's what you want to do although its usually easier to just paint on the map rather than the model.....but yeah, its possible...just select the paintbrush, a colour, and start painting on the model.....but I'll warn you....its very erratic.

Once you've finished 'painting' on the model, double click the 'diffuse' map under 'Textures' in the layers panel to open it in another window.

From here you can save it out. If the format you need is listed then fine, but if not save as a PSD file. From the PSD you can then save out to whatever format you need.


Thats Ok then, because they won't be added to the map.....any of them.

Does that make more sense?

Its not an easy topic to explain concisely, sorry.

Regards.
MrToM.

I really appreciate your help ! Especialy since it's late in England (also in the Netherlands). Anyway, i'm going off now. But I think i'll be back tomorrow. I like how helpful the people are on this forum.

and when you mentioned that 'it' could be done, I ment that I did that (successfully) and brought that up as an example and the other two were unsuccessful. (effects & normals)

But yeah. Let's continue this tomorrow (it's technically today) or if one of us can't, then another time :cool2:

 

[MrToM]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Not a problem at all.

I think I know where you are getting confused but we'll discuss it later....it'll give me time to think something up to make it easier for you.

Till tomorrow.....well, later today!

Regards.
MrToM.

 

[I_am_magic]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Not a problem at all.

I think I know where you are getting confused but we'll discuss it later....it'll give me time to think something up to make it easier for you.

Till tomorrow.....well, later today!

Regards.
MrToM.

I'm back. I also forgot to mention that I edited some of my posts (minor modifications, mostly spelling), but some of it changed my intentions.

Also, I think I can just copy over the effects from the 3D model over to the texture.

I'll try that in a second, but how am I going to use that generated pattern? (the PSB image I showed before). you said it wasn't possible?

 

[MrToM]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Well, the generated 'normal' map is generated from the PS 3D model for use in the PS 3D Environment.

This is what you see in the workspace.....the mesh is displaced BY that image and reacts with any lighting you may have in the same scene.

You can, however, save that 'normal' map out and use it in a DIFFERENT 3D environment for exactly the same effect.....but what isn't normally done is to use it with another map....diffuse, specular, texture etc etc.

A 'normal' map is not 'visible' per-se, but used to change the appearance of the surface in conjunction with the lighting.....usually via the 'bump' map slot.

What you currently see in the PS workspace is the 'effect' that the 'normal' map has on the surface.
If you use that same map in the 3D application you are using, (and I assume you are using one as you posted the diffuse map in your initial post), then you will get the same 'effect'.

Likewise, you can 'edit' and save out the diffuse map in PS for use in your 3D program but to be honest its much easier to do this by just editing the map directly in PS rather than applying it to a 3D model and editing it from there.....there is no benefit to doing this.

As I've said before, you will have to edit each 'part' of the diffuse map separately if you want to apply those 'fx'....you cannot do it just on the layer as a whole.

Regards.
MrToM.

 

[I_am_magic]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

I got the effects going, thank you.

Do you know how I can convert the normal map to a bump one? Then I can create a new layer and use the bump one with the diffuse texture itself and then i'm done.

 

[MrToM]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

...I got the effects going, thank you...

Can you explain what you've done please?

It will be useful not only now but for future reference.

The 'normal' map IS a bump map, but like I keep saying its not normally used in conjunction with any other as its used 'live' so it reacts with the lighting in the scene.

If you want to 'bake' the bump map onto the diffuse I'd suggest using your 3D app to do it.

Regards.
MrToM.

 

[I_am_magic]

Re: How do I merge the diffuse texture with the effects and generated normals (3D mod

Can you explain what you've done please?

It will be useful not only now but for future reference.

The 'normal' map IS a bump map, but like I keep saying its not normally used in conjunction with any other as its used 'live' so it reacts with the lighting in the scene.

If you want to 'bake' the bump map onto the diffuse I'd suggest using your 3D app to do it.

Regards.
MrToM.

Not all the effects, just the blending effects. They were in 2D so that wasn't that difficult. I simply selected my texture and used the style onto it.

But what I really wan't to know is how I can use the normal map. I wan't to merge it with the texture so it looks just like the picture I posted.

EDIT:

I'm a bit short on time today. I just really wan't to know how I can do this quick