Edits, face swaps, and Nazis

[JeffK]

There seems to be a growing movement to identify those doctors who are trying to control a pandemic with Nazis. There was an article yesterday with people protesting the wearing of masks wearing yellow stars of David - a comparison to what the Nazis demanded Jews wear while they hauled them off in cattle cars and taken to death camps where they were experimented on and exterminated in gas chambers. Men, women, children, mothers, fathers, grandparents, sisters, brothers. All in the name of "purification". Now the Nazi visuals are being brought back to further pollute the politics of controlling a pandemic by somehow comparing the wearing of masks with the persecution and extermination of Jews among others.
These visuals have now turned up on PSG forums asking to edit good physicians onto the faces of Nazis such as Josef Mengele, who experimented on Jews at his pleasure. This does not belong here. This is the most despicable time in our history. And although it should be remembered so it never happens again, requests of face swapping in this context does not belong here.
The social networks have at last begun removing images and slogans that are iintent on disinformation and lies. I believe that PSG forum should do the same. This goes beyond a fun forum edit. It does not belong here. It's far worse than the pornography that the forum is so sensitive about.
- Jeff

 

[chrisdesign]

Thanks Jeff...
Edits like this should be deleted.

 

[IamSam]

The social networks have at last begun removing images and slogans that are iintent on disinformation and lies. I believe that PSG forum should do the same.

Social networks have developed the habit of only removing content that's not inline with their underlying agenda and narrative and has nothing to do with misinformation or lies. But this is their right to do so on their platform and I would never take a stance against said practice. The act of referring to this as censorship or a direct violation of the first amendment right is incorrect.

It's far worse than the pornography that the forum is so sensitive about.

Many would disagree and this forum is not sensitive about this subject. Nudity and pornography is prohibited as a result of a contractual agreement with some of our sponsors. Otherwise, it would be allowed within reason.

This forum will not sit in moral judgement of others and we will not censure content just because we don't like it or find it despicable. We, as in all of us, are not here to determine what's conscientiously acceptable and what's not. No matter what anyone may think of it, as long as a request falls within the guidelines, rules, and policies, that were established long before I came to the forum, then it will be allowed. Whether or not I agree, I am obligated to uphold the policies of the forum.

Remember, you have the choice to involve yourself in the requests or not.

I have stated that I encourage any and all of you to voice your opinions in the proper forum. You will be allowed to do so.................even if others may not like it. I would only intervene if and when any discussion became aggressive or abusive.

 

[hawkeye]

It has nothing to do with moral judgement, it's a matter of recognizing insulting political commentary in visual form. But anything goes as long as it's not nudity of porn? If someone requested that an African American's face be placed on a monkey, would that be allowed since it isn't nudity or porn? By the way, it does require a moral judgement to define what constitutes nudity and pornography versus art. I'm done.

 

[IamSam]

It has nothing to do with moral judgement, it's a matter of recognizing insulting political commentary in visual form.

If not moral, then how do you wish to label the censoring of political commentary? Recognition does not minimize the act of allowing one persons opinions and views on any given subject to take precedence over someone else's.

By the way, it does require a moral judgement to define what constitutes nudity and pornography versus art.

Of course it would and I never implied that it wouldn't, hence my adding "within reason". But remember, what you may consider tasteful nudity and art, others may refer to it as filthy pornography. In such a case who would be right?

There's always someone wanting something removed. The blurry line is always on the move. On another subject I received 2 requests to remove a recent thread that was started in the off topic forum because they had strong feelings on the subject being discussed. Should I have removed that thread?

 

[hawkeye]

I thought this was a Photoshop site, thus not a place for political commentary. Obviously, I was wrong.

 

[IamSam]

I thought this was a Photoshop site, thus not a place for political commentary.

On this matter we absolutely agree!

 

[JeffK]

On this matter we absolutely agree!

Then don't allow those types of posts. PSG has created a place for politics by permitting those images.

-

 

[IamSam]

Then don't allow those types of posts.

Me agreeing has nothing to do with allowing the posts. I feel this forum needs to be about Photoshop and not a platform for airing personal/political grievances. There are many subjects that I personally believe should never be allowed in this forum, but as member I choose to respect the polices set forth by this forum. I'm here for Photoshop related discussions and less about politics, religion, and other worldviews I really don't care to discuss.........................but I respect and defend others rights to do so, up to and including one's right to request an edit that is politically based.

PSG has created a place for politics by permitting those images.

PSG creates a place where anyone can post a request as long as it's within the existing guidelines, rules, and policies. Whether or not we agree with that request should not be a point of contention and should not contribute to censorship. Completing that request is strictly up to the individual members of the forum. If you don't like the subject of the request, don't perform the edit and move on to the next.

For those old enough to understand the reference, I'm beginning to feel like a broken record.

 

[JeffK]

For those old enough to understand the reference, I'm beginning to feel like a broken record.

I'm also old enough to know what kicking the can down the road means.

You do great work here Sam and I value your presence and guidance. PSG also provides a great resource and landing place for students and teachers alike. I'm sure many of us, including me, enjoy working and collaborating here.

On this particular subject though, we'll have to agree to disagree.

- Jeff

 

[IamSam]

Thank you Jeff. I bear no hard feelings for any members concerning this topic. And for the record, I don't disagree with you at all on this matter. The forum has it's policies and it's my job to uphold them as it's representative.

Also, the thought occurred to me last night that I may have made an assumption. You guys may be overlooking that this request was made in the PAID forum. The rules are quite different for this forum. If a member is going to pay for a request, as long as it is made within the forums policies, they have always been allowed no matter the content. Even porn related requests have been made in this forum that I have received tons of flack over.

Had this request been made in the FREE edit forum, the request would have been taken down.

There were some preliminary staff discussions about removing the paid section from the forum. Perhaps it's time to revisit those discussions.

 

[thebestcpu]

There were some preliminary staff discussions about removing the paid section from the forum. Perhaps it's time to revisit those discussions.

Perhaps it is.
There is also a value in attracting and retaining the significantly contributing PhotoshopGuru members. I hope the staff seriously considers the retention aspect as well.

If I see something that violates the Photoshop forum rules, I report it.
If I see something that is bothersome enough yet still in the rules, I would not hesitate to bring it up to @IamSam . Thanks @JeffK you beat me to it.

If there are posts or responses that are bothersome to me (such as the topic at hand) yet still allowed by Photoshop gurus, I have chosen selectively to unfollow such members that create that reaction in me. Doesn't happen too often and I think I am a pretty open person as well as I certainly respect peoples right to free speech within the context of the Constitution (which BTW has limits too). So I hope people understand that along with free speech is also the right to turn the channel, close the door, and simple not let everyone exercise their free speech right in my living room or my on my computer screen. I have limited time on this earth and I have to focus my time and energies on positive contributing, teaching, learning, and challenging activities/interfaces/experiences. That includes challenges to the way I think.

On reflection, I am pretty sure that all of the unfollows that I have activated, were probably initiated by posts or responses on the Paid forum.
I am glad we have the Off-Topic forum btw.
John Wheeler