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Correcting Mistakes


L

Lee

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Believe it or not I'm going back and learning some of the basics I "skipped over" while self teaching myself PS. It would be wise for me to note here that I NEVER read assembly instructions either. [shhh]

In any case, what is the difference between the History pallet and the Edit>undo command. When I want to correct a mistake I have just gone in and deleted that History state. Although it gets the job done maybe this is not the best way to do it.

What is the difference between the two way of backing up and when do you use each one.

Thank you, as always. :)
 
Well, Lee, if you are now willing to read what the differences are between History and Undo, now would be the perfect time to read those "assembly instructions" that came with Photoshop, called the User Manual. You can access it at anytime by pressing F1.

If you take those few minutes to read about the History Palette, and the Undo command, you should get a better idea of the differences between them, and just might learn more about "snapshots", "setting History options", and other REALLY COOL stuff!!!

And if you think about it, it's really not that much different from reading similar answers on Forum boards, except you don't have to take the time to ask and wait for an answer, because the answer is already at your fingertips; AND, you'll get the complete information, not just distilled interpretations, which may not be complete or necessarily accurate.

Remember, the User Manual IS your friend...
 
Who the hell are you, Ms Oz? . Were you hired by Mark to tell people to read the manuals and not ask questions here? Since when? I've been involved with this forum for almost a year. MOST folks are VERY helpful here.

For your information I WAS reading the CS manual as when I logged onto the forum. I did not completely understand what I was reading so I asked the question. That's what these forums are for - to ask questions when you don't understand something. Interesting concept, isn't it?

From here on out, don't replay to my posts ever again. You are not an asset here. You are a smart ass, self righteous and arrogant liability. There is not manual for my post so is there anything I've written you didn't understand?


Lee
 
Lee,

The way I work with it is Undo (Command/Control Z) immediately undoes the last action but that's all. Clicking undo a second time just undoes the undo so you can basically undo and redo one action over and over. The history palette keeps a series of steps you've taken in memory so you can go back however many steps (states) which are recorded in the palette. The number of remembered history states (which you can think of as possible undos) is specified in preferences and it is always a balancing act between the number of history recorded and the amount of memory or scratch disk space used. History uses a lot of resources as you are effectively storing your image over and over. I think the default is 20 and I usually have it set from 30 to 50 but have over a GB of RAM and a dedicated 30GB partition on another hard drive set as my first scratch disk.

Anyway, the history palette enables you to go back any number of states. Additionally you can take a snapshot at any point of your work which will save the current image at the top of the History Palette. Clicking on that will revert to that state so it is a valuable tool when you get to saving points in you work. In fact you can use the options of the history palette to save a snapshot every time you save a file while you are working on it.

Then there is the capacity to select a saved history state and use it for painting with the history brush which paints into the current image from the selected history state.

While you are exploring the options of the history palette, available from the little triangle in the upper right hand corner of the palette, try out the non linear history. Some people like it. I prefer the linear history as I tend to get confused by the non linear.

Hmm...that's all I can think of right off...

Cheers!
 
Thanks, Welles. I appreciate the help, buddy.

I'm still not clear though between the History Palette and the Edit>Undo tool, though. They seem to do the same thing and the manual did not make it clear (to me anyway) what the difference was.

Thanks again,

Lee
 
Edit > Undo undoes only the last item in the history palette. You can't keep using Edit > Undo multiple times and have it work it's way back up the history palette whereas you can undo multiple steps by clicking on any history state in the palette.

I'm not sure it makes sense but that's the way it works.
 
Sorry, Welles. My fault. I was thinking of the History palette options in the drop down menu as "undoes" and mistakenly said that instead of the proper term Step Forward (shift-Ctrl-Z) and Step Backward (Alt-Ctrl-Z) controls.

Why have those options both in the History palette itself and under Edit when all you have to do is click on any state you want in the History palette (as you mentioned). That is much is faster than hitting the Step Backward option 10 (or whatever) times. Are they somehow separate controls that do different things or just redundancy?

Lee
 
Redundancy. The undo was part of Photshop long before the History Palette and has been kept probably for the simplicity of using the key commands I would guess. I still use Command/Control Z regularly but never use keyboard commands to navigate the history palette, favoring the mouse click.

You know, it's funny but every now and then I get in a similar mental 'Why' loop. Inevitably, when it comes to computers, the only Why is because it made sense to some programmer and has no other valid reason. I almost always give up on the Why of computerish things in favor of the How. They are such arbitrary structures built by so many different people that there is really no underlying principle to be found. I am amazed that computers work at all...much less in a fairly consistent manner. ;)
 
Lee it sounds llike you are alot like me, If all else fails then read the directions. :bustagut: :bustagut: :bustagut: :bustagut:

But Welles good info there Bud

As far as I understand it using the History states is the best option, as ther History store individual snaps of your work in memory, so by deleting the history state you free up some memory as well. [confused] [confused]
 
Since it's addition in (I believe) version 6, the histroy function has been basically a replacement for the undo feature. Back in the day, you had one level of undo (basically one level of history) and you were forced to save multiple files to build a working state for your projects. Now you have access to your workflow through the history function. (I personally have cmd+Z set to be "step backward", as often I want to undo a couple things quickly without pulling up my history or I want to walk backwards through some steps that are similarly named in the history palette).

There is one place that undo still functions where history does not though, that is in active functions. If you want a good example of that, create a shape, then cmd+T to free transform and make a couple transformations, before you apply them though, hit your undo key, it will step back one transformation step... it does an "undo" on the last step you made. It might not seem like much, but if you've been tweaking a transformation for 10 steps to get it just right and mess something up because the cat jumped on your mousing hand, you'll appreciate that one little undo. :)

So basically, history is now for workflow while undo is for active work... if that makes sense. ;)

As a side note, and at risk of stepping in the middle of something... MsOZ, you need to lay off the attitude. I understand that lots of people ask stupid questions without trying or putting out effort, but if you read the forums regularly (as any active member should be doing) you would know that Lee is always willing to put out effort and asks questions once he's exhausted resources.

On the flipside Lee, yelling and name-calling doesn't come off well either, I'm surprised to see you "lose your cool".

I'm not a mod, and I'm sure most people could care less what I think, but I care about this community and it's members and I hate to see things go poorly.

I'm done with the soapbox if anyone wants to borrow it. $0.02
 
MindBender said:
(I personally have cmd+Z set to be "step backward", as often I want to undo a couple things quickly without pulling up my history or I want to walk backwards through some steps that are similarly named in the history palette).

There is one place that undo still functions where history does not though, that is in active functions. If you want a good example of that, create a shape, then cmd+T to free transform and make a couple transformations, before you apply them though, hit your undo key, it will step back one transformation step... it does an "undo" on the last step you made. It might not seem like much, but if you've been tweaking a transformation for 10 steps to get it just right and mess something up because the cat jumped on your mousing hand, you'll appreciate that one little undo. :)

So basically, history is now for workflow while undo is for active work... if that makes sense. ;)
Click to expand...

Excellent clarification, Mindbender. That makes complete sense to me. I like your use of the remapped Command + Z also. I always have all my palettes available at all times on a secondary monitor so always have easy visual and mouse access so it never even dawned on me to do that. Good tip!
 
Thanks you guys for the additional input. This place rules........as always ;)

A side note on owners manuals. It goes without saying that the folks who write manuals have a lot of understanding about the topics they write about. Unfortunately, many seem to lose track of the fact that they are "experts" and are NOT just writing for other experts. Maybe some just have poor communication skills in some cases and nobody in corporate (who approves the manuals) is any better. I don't know? I think many times mfg's forget that many who read their manuals are self taught like am. And in some cases, with difficult instructions, many folks need "their hand held" more that someone who has been working with PS for years. I know I do. There are some days the I feel like I'm reading Greek through muddy water when trying to understand something in an owners manual.

Anyway, thanks again for the clarification.

MindBender - Point taken, buddy. I was not having a good day that day and then to log onto the internet "Cheers" of PS forums and be told by someone I don't even know to read the manual if I want to know something was more than I could take.
 
Lee,

{Rant}

Boy oh boy. You just punched one of my rant and rave buttons! Computer manuals. Writers of manuals should always have some rank beginner sitting at their sides as they write. All too often the manual simply describes the self evident without giving any real explanation or the 'explanation' is given in terms of itself. A typical nerdish explanation might read...

"The dweeberization of the function is the ization function of the dweeb."

Great! You don't have the slightest idea what the terms mean and some nerd thinks he is making sense to the uninitiated.

BAH! I hate 'em!!! }:\

Recently I've been using TypeTool by FontLab, a 'simple' font maker and editor (the cheapo version of FontLab). In the manual is simply a description of most of the elements you see as you try to use the software but not all by any means and there is no information at all how to use it! AARGH! Well, I am figuring it out but trial and error is much slower than shortening the learning curve with one decently prepared tutorial.

It drives me batty!

{/Rant}

;)
 
Hey Lee, there something else the History palette can do that Z or CTRL/Z can't %}
Say you created this boss effect (i.e. transparent rain drops) on layer 3 and want to use the same style on layer 8, drag and drop in the layers palette perhaps? Naw it covers the entire layer, I just want it in certain ares only :(|
Solution: Go to the History palette click on the box next to the state where you created the effect then use the history brush on layer 8 and bam you can paint on the same effect you created earlier anywhere you like. :righton:
 
VERY cool. Thanks, Nitro. :righton:

Welles,
Ranting now and then is good for the sole......or something like that. :D
 
Nitrobutler! thanks.- Finally I have a clearer understanding of the history brush. Up till now its been a little fuzzy and I didn't quite get it.
Don't really get the non-linear history thing - haven't needed it so far.
I can't imagine PS without the history pallette.

Thanks for bringing the history topic up Lee. We all learn -at least inexperienced users like me learn. I too have been scolded by Ms Oz , but on the whole I thinks most of the time she's right. Like about the spoon feeding - there are people who come on here and want info that is clearly covered in Mark's tutorials and they don't bother to look at them. i mean, what are they there for. Anyway enough of that. ;)
 
I've worked with Photoshop since version 2 and I still cant decipher some of the crap in the manual, even stuff I know how to use in and out... ever read the descriptions of the different blending modes? hehe scary stuff. I would expect someone to consult the manual (or more likely the help files) before asking a question, but if they've done that to no avail, then even the simplest question is warrented. Thank goodness for places like this!! :)

Nitro brings up another good use for history... tool states. You can set certain tools like the erase tool or the art brush to work from specific areas in your history... so it's like masking out a chunk of time. :) Just click that little paint icon in the history palette and you can work from there.
 
Hi guys :D


I use the history brush a lot for photo retouch,when you use it in conjunction with a tablet its great.I often set my tablet to the firm setting and gradually build up a little noise or blur etc.One thing I used to often find was when you rework an area it always sticks out as being re worked,but if you zoom way in and use your background layer as a kind of key{with your masked person etc} add just a smidegeon of noise until the two start to look the same,its a great way of making retouching dissapear on a composition.


If I am using the clone tool before I start I almost always purge my history so that I have around 20 or lifesavers in the history palette.For the undo I use that a bit when I am painting,and if I use undo or the history palette for me generally it depends whether I am painting an area on the left or the right hand side of the monitor :D One thing I have learned about PS though is that there are often many ways of doing things.I discovered a while back that for instance the frosted glass filter works better for waves then the ripple filter,so personally I think a great deal of PS comes down to experimentation really.



As for the manuals and the writers there of,ages ago a friend of mine and I had a discussion about the lack of understandable information in a plugin for 3D we were discussing.Some time later this friend of mine creates an incredible 3D plugin himself,and what does he do he makes a bloody manual which is kind of indecipherable [stuned] ,hows that for irony :D I think there is a compulsory class every coder has to go to which is 101 ways to make an indecipherable manual for your software.


Stu.
 
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