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A Caveman's computer......


dv8_fx

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Basically, my computer knowledge rivals that of a neantherthal. My avatar mouse knows better than me. But I gotta get a new cpu.

I've concocted this setup to the best of my abilities hoping someone can knock some enlightenment into me.

CPU? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? AM2 X2 4400
Memory? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2GB DDR
Mainboard
Graphics Card? ? ?Dual NVIDIA Quatro OpenGl cards
Sound Card? ? ? ? ?Cheap (I'm not a computer sound buff)
HD0? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?20GB drive for (OS Installation only)
HD1? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?36GB Raptor Drives (swap & temporary in HW RAID 0)
HD2? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?120GB Maxtor (Application installations in HW RAID 1)
Optical? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?HP DVD-RW 640 w/ lightscribe
OS? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Windows XP Pro
Misc? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Leadtek PVR2000
Misc? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Hardware RAID controller
?
?
?

Come to think about it, I don't even know why I have to decide on 3 HD's. (Looks awesome, tho B7) And what the hell is RAID Array? I know it has to do with all those drives but the only Raid I know is bugspray.

I use Autocad, PS, Corel Draw, Poser & 3dmax. As well as a couple of free 3dprogs and a couple more Big Progies I have but can't use coz it requires XP.

The setup I want is primarily a render machine...... I'm not into games (my daugther can have my old one for it) and not into sound .

Can you guys help me fill in the blanks or kick me for the wrong choice...... Al.... Gaussian..... anyone.... I know you guys are good at this......

Thanks.
 
I will sum up several things tomorrow that you have to pay attention to Vee, I already had that planned yesterday and today, but I got side-tracked. ;)
 
No rush, Gaussian.?

Budget -wise....... No idea what prices are like in ur area..... here it would be medium range (RM4500.00 about US$1,350.00)....... Then again, I feel that some components are cheaper here.

And then some of the good stuff are hard to find. Have to import from HongKong or Singapore. I saw a lot of them in the Philippines but I don't go home that often . Probably I would by the parts there and have it assembled here.
 
Just to avoid confusion dv8_fx; if you want to have raid-0 or raid-1 on a drive you will need two identical drives. So in your configuration you wouldn?t need 3 but 5 drives.

The advantage of the Raid-1 solution (mirroring) is that all data from drive X will be mirrored onto drive Y. Understand that if you delete data by accident from drive X using raid-1, that the same data will also be deleted from drive Y.
You can avoid this by using a program like Second Copy http://www.centered.com/ or many other programs that do the same.
Second Copy allows you to copy deleted files to a directory of your choice using a scheduled job. You could for example use this program to make archived copies on drive X of your mirrored drive, but you could also consider not using Raid at all and save the backup and archived copies on Y.

Do understand that any write on a Raid-1 is slower than writing to a single drive, since in a Raid-1 configuration both drives have to be written to. Reading from Raid-1 drives however is faster than reading from a single drive, assuming that we?re talking about the same models.


Let?s go through a few things;


CPU

AMD processors have always been the right choice for gaming. They?re fast and cheap. The downside is that they still get pretty hot, but so do the latest Intel processors.

For the next couple of years is predicted that Intel will take the lead again after releasing the Intel Conroe Dual Core processors in a matter of 1 to 2 months. Conroe processors have turned out to be a lot faster (and I mean a lot!) than any AMD out there. People first thought that Intel used a special setup to prove the speed of these drives, but recent independent tests came up with the same results.?

Conroes also don?t get very hot and they?re going to be rather cheap, cheaper than AMD processors.

Since designing a new processor from scratch, which Intel pretty much did, takes 3-4 years, analysts are expecting that Intel will lead the market for the next few years, unless AMD comes up with a major new design which is doubted by these same leading analysts.

Also Apple has decided to make only use of Intel processors, which only confirms the bright future of Intel.

If you decide to go for Intel, you might not need a Conroe processor right now, but at least a motherboard that supports it.


Memory

2GB memory is a good choice.
Don?t settle for no-name brand Ram. If your motherboard supports dual channel ram, then I would advice you to use it. Understand that for dual channel ram you need two identical memory sticks preferable from the same brand. Some memory is sold as dual channel, but in principle you can use most sticks as long as they are completely identical.


Video card

Both Nvidea and ATI are a good choice. Ask yourself if you need the most expensive cards. Unless you play a lot of games, you quite often don?t need that power. Go at least for a PCIexpress card, which is the latest standard and a card that is compatible with Vista?s new graphic engine. Most cards out there will be compatible with Vista, however few will only be able to make maximum use of all features that Vista?s new graphic engine has to offer.

Don?t underestimate Vista. Microsoft has made major changes to the kernel and the rest of the operating system to make it a lot more secure.
Also the new IE7 will be more secure on the Vista platform than the old Win XP platform. So if security is your concern, then you probably want to switch to Vista next year or the year after.

Note that a fast 3D card won?t make applications like Photoshop or a Windows OS like XP any faster. Only 3D accelerated applications or operating systems will run faster. They also don?t make you render 3D images faster when you render to a file. The advantage for 3D software in 3D applications is that your view port (the area in which you work) will render faster.

Also understand that some 3D software works better or is more reliable with specific 3D cards (Vue d?Esprit is a good example), so you might want to look into that too.


Motherboard

Buy a modern motherboard that supports most of the latest features, but avoid going over the top.
Note that not all new motherboards support IDE drives, but only Serial ATA. Some board allow to use both IDE and SATA. Make sure your motherboard supports Dual Channel Ram and DDR2 ram. One of the most popular brands is Asus. Also look at the card you want to use.
Some motherboards allow you to use older standards beside the new standards that are already part of the motherboard, so make sure you look into that if you want to reuse some of your old hardware.


Hard drives

Western Digital and Seagate are now the market leaders. Don?t settle for less than a 7200 rpm drive with at least 8mb of cache. A larger cache not only makes your drive slightly faster, it also reduces noise and increases the life-span of a hard drive (less head movements). Don?t go for the super big hard drives when you only plan to use 10% for the next year or so. This will save you money, because those bigger hard drives only get cheaper.

If you consider the super fast 36GB Raptor Drives understand that these drives are 10,000rpm drives, which means that they make more noise and develop more heat, especially when you use two of them.

Best place to compare hard drives:

http://www.storagereview.com/

Which configuration to use depends a lot on personal preferences. The ideal combination would be the OS on Raptor, swap file on Raptor and one drive for data and one for backup.


Optical

Nothing to add, other then to choose not only the one with all the features you need, but also one that is reliable. You also don?t want to end up with 50 DVDs that cause problems on other drives or video or audio players.

Check sites like:

http://www.cdrinfo.com
http://www.cdfreaks.com
http://cdmediaworld.com
http://www.burnworld.com/

Also make sure that you use the proper media for your burner, because not all media works well with every burner. Pretty much every burner however allows you to improve this by updating its firmware.


Power supply

The power supply is the most underestimated part by many computer users. Cheap power supplies often create poor quality voltage, leading to an unstable operating system. An inefficient power supply can lead to higher electricity bills and more heat inside your computer, which can cause all kind of problems in the long and short term. An inefficient and cheap power supply often has a single fan which rotates its fan (or fans) at a higher speed to get rid of that excessive heat, which often leads to more noise.

Avoid choosing a power supply with a single 80mm fan. Power supplies with a single 120 mm fan can move the same amount of air as a 80mm, yet it doesn?t need to rotate as much, which often leads to less noise and longer life span. Power supplies with two 80mm fans create in general more noise than a single 120mm fan.
So hopefully now you understand that for example not every 400 watt power supply is the same just because they?re both labeled 400 watt.


Heat

Let?s look at an average configuration and some general aspects:

2 hard drives (more heat than one, 10k drives create even more)
Latest CPUs (create a lot of heat, often they need a more powerful CPU fan)
Fast video cards; faster often also means hotter.
Memory, motherboard, extra cards, burners, in general they all create more heat than 5 years ago.
Modern computers also need in general more powerful power supplies, which often also create a lot more heat on their own.


Don?t underestimate heat; it lowers the lifespan of your components much faster, especially if you live in hot climates and when you don?t a good air condition to cool down your room. More heat means that you need more or better fans and quite often they also have to run at a higher speed which results in higher noise levels.

To keep heat under control, let?s go through a few things

- water cooling (expensive and surely not for everyone)
- do you really need that super fast card on which you can cook an egg?
- Multiple hard drives mean more heat. Higher rpm also means in general more heat
- SATA cables or cable sleeves improve air flow and so do special cable compartments inside your case.
- Avoid to restrict airflow in any way
- A well designed case that is mostly aluminum or metal (transfers heat better than plastic) and allows you to place extra fans at the rear, front, sides and/or top really help to decrease heat
- An efficient power supply can also reduce heat as also the quality of its fan(s).
- Cooler CPUs like the new Conroes bring down heat
- CPU fans only move heat away from the CPU and drop it somewhere else inside you case. Only a descent case fan will remove that heat.


Noise

With all these modern components that often need to be cooled by multiple fans, you often run into a new problem; noise. To keep noise down, start by keeping heat down.
Then continue by choosing fans or drives that don?t create a lot of noise. A good sound isolated case can really help to reduce noise.

I mentioned both heat and noise because they will have to play a role in what components you plan to use.

Ok, that?s it for now. It was not my intention to tell you what to buy, but more to make you understand what you have to be aware of when buying or building a new computer.

I wanted to add some more info, but knowing me I tend to go on for too long in E-mails or posts on forums.? :D
 
I wanted to add some more info, but knowing me I tend to go on for too long in E-mails or posts on forums.


Oh wow..... Thanks Gaussian. Bet there's a lot of stuff for me to learn in this. I don't mind. The more input I get, the better for me.

I've downloaded this page so I can digest it at my leisure.

Keep it coming guys. As Jhonny 5 would say..."more input".......
 
yes Gauss that's alot to digest but much appreciated ....

Vee (dv8_fx) .... umm, who's Jhonny 5??? .... [confused] [confused]
 
namvet said:
yes Gauss that's alot to digest but much appreciated ....

Vee (dv8_fx) .... umm, who's Jhonny 5??? .... [confused] [confused]

Military robot in "Short Circuit"; noted for doing impressions of 3 Stooges and
shouting "Stephaneeeeee". Well, ex-military.
 
Shaun said:
Military robot in "Short Circuit"; noted for doing impressions of 3 Stooges and
shouting "Stephaneeeeee". Well, ex-military.

thanks Shaun ... now I remember :) ... geesh, and I saw both Short Circuits!! .... [doh] .. my aging brain!! :bustagut: :bustagut:

dv8_fx said:
:bustagut: :bustagut:

Short Circuit 1 & 2....... Namvet....... tsk, tsk, tsk.......Disassemble..........

.... should I go and stand in a corner now?? .... :bustagut: :bustagut:
 
Namvet, if you never watched Short Circuit, you're spent too much time on the computer.... :bustagut:.....


Gaussian......

Your outline was very informative. I'm finalising my setup. I heard a lot about Intel Conroe . Everyone here is anticipating it. And I might putoff buying the computer till its release. The release may be just in time for the annual computer fair here in October.

I'd love to own an apple but the price here is quite steep compared to US.

I agree about heat. It's always a problem here :bustagut:. But seriously, heat does affect the life of components. I periodically have to have my cpu checked and fan/power supply changed because it always breaks down. I'm planning to get one of those top of the line fancy housings that's out in the market with multiple fans and dust filters.

I'm torn between getting the Raid Setup or just getting the simple 3 Hard Drives. What's your opinion about that?

If I were to select the 3 HD setup, would one74gb Western Digital Raptor WD740GD and 2 80gb Western Digitals for Swap and Data be a good choice? Does this need RAID...... or would simple partitioning suffice?

As for RAM, KINGSTON is the most widely used brand here. It's difficult to find other good brands here. MOTHERBOARDS..... there's a whole lot and I'll keep your specifications in mind.


I realise you might be very busy..... but I appreciate every bit of knowledge you can share with this neanderthal...... :bustagut:.....

f you have more to add, even if its volumes, I never tire when reading.......


dv8_fx
 
dv8_fx said:
Namvet, if you never watched Short Circuit, you're spent too much time on the computer....? :bustagut:.....

Vee (dv8_fx) .... [doh] [doh] .. I said I saw both!! ... :D .... \:/ ... maybe I should get the DVD, just to refresh my aging memory ... \:/ .... :D

and I agree that any info on 'puter set-ups is welcome .... I will have to upgrade soon :(
 
dv8_fx said:
Namvet wrote:


Ya.... they've stopped producing parts for Model T's...... :bustagut:.... :P

[saywhat] [stuned] :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: ..... aaaaarrgh!!! ... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: ... I sooooo love my Model T Computer ... it has 'history' and doesn't deserve to live at the local tip :( :( :(
 
I know, I know........ It's so hard to part with "Family".........

I still kick myself in the butt for disposing my old Commodore after using her for 4 years ..... :cry:.

I should have kept that . A historical piece of human technology :{. Would have looked great in my den room......
 
dv8_fx said:
I still kick myself in the butt for disposing my old Commodore after using her for 4 years ..... :cry:.

I should have kept that .? A historical piece of human technology :{. Would have looked great in my den room......

You know, I'm not a collector of any computer stuff (expect for my ZX-81 Sinclair which is now about 25 years old and still working), but like you I wish I had kept my old Commodore 64. Not only was it the best selling computer ever, but at some point sales went down, they repacked it and sales went up again. Now how often does that happen with a computer?! [stuned]

So once in a while I'm looking on Ebay for one that's working, in a descent shape and in the original box. :)
 
Oh ya, it was a best seller at the time. I could remember us buddies drooling over it. And it was our favourite piece in the college library.

Back then, there were only a few computer users in our place and it was cool to have a computer at home.

Over the years, I've come across a a few but not working and badly nicked . Still hunting.
 
" 3 HD setup, would one74gb Western Digital Raptor WD740GD and 2 80gb Western Digitals for Swap and Data be a good choice? Does this need RAID...... or would simple partitioning suffice?"
No, you do not need RAID... I'd prefer using separated disks than a RAID array (because the controller also could fail)

There is not so much need for partitions, NTFS is not so prone to fragmentation, and the Scratch disks less sensitive to that issue (as long as it is on a moderate level)

Put the scratch disk and the pagefile on separate physical disks.

You'll love your Raptor. It is not so noisy nor so hot- mine is placed in an Silentmaxx enclosure-. (large HD's with a lot of platters can be noisier and hotter, as you could see at www.storagereview.com )

Pay also attention to the noise of your machine: a 120mm fan does need to spin slower than a 92mm one, see www.silentpcreview.com
 

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