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Duotone - How to have b&w image with red text?


J

jordan8201

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I was sent a jpg image that is primarily black and white, but has red text. It's flattened, but I need to give this image to the printer to be printed that way - the only red will be the text. I tried converting it to greyscale, then to duotone, but it puts a red tint on everything. I've tried adjusting the lines, but I can't get it where only the text is red. Isn't there a way to choose what areas I want the second color on? Thanks!
 
Try this. Use the Magic Wand tool to select the red text. Enter Ctrl/Command J. That will put your red text on a separate layer. If want the original later to be all black and white, just add a Black and White adjustment layer to it. Once on a separate layer you change the color or whatever you need to do to it.

jordan8201 said:
I was sent a jpg image that is primarily black and white, but has red text. It's flattened, but I need to give this image to the printer to be printed that way - the only red will be the text. I tried converting it to greyscale, then to duotone, but it puts a red tint on everything. I've tried adjusting the lines, but I can't get it where only the text is red. Isn't there a way to choose what areas I want the second color on? Thanks!
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I understand how to use the magic wand to color the text, but I need (I think) to save it as a duotone in order to save it in Indesign for the printer.

So, I first saved it as Grayscale. I have to then convert it in order to color it red again. I converted to CMYK. I changed the text to red and saved it as a .psd. I placed that in Indesign, but when I use the Separations Preview, it's not showing up correctly. I'm sure I'm not understanding something simple. Thanks again for the help.
 
When you make a duotone it has to be from a greyscale. A greyscale image has no color data. If I understand , your wanting the text to be CMYK color. The image can only have one mode. I would make the duotone, convert back to color. Then make the text. This way you achieve your duotone look and have the red text. You will have to send it to print as a color document, which should not matter to the printer.
 
Suggestion, folks: look up the difference between "spot color" and "duotone", as the words are used in the printing industry.

Tom
 
I'm brand new to having things like this printed. It's actually for a 2 color newspaper. The printer had me choose a spot color {pantone solid 485, I believe} for the text in Indesign.

Now, I want to use that same color for graphics that already exist. I tried opening the image in Photoshop, converting to Greyscale, then converting to CMYK, and coloring the text the 485 red. It looked fine, but when I used the separations preview in Indesign, it didn't show up properly. Am I missing a step?
 
Thanks for the replies. I've never done anything like this before, but the printing is actually for a 2 color newspaper. The printer had me choose a spot color for the text in Indesign. I used pantone solid 485,I believe.

I'm needing to convert full color photos to 2 color images for the printing. The printer suggested I convert them to duotone in Photos hop. When I do that though, I'm not able to make only the text red.

I also tried converting to Greyscale, then to cmyk, then making the text red.

When I place that in Indesign and use the separations preview, it doesn't seem to be appearing correctly. Am I still doing something wrong?

Sorry if this double posted. I lost the last one. Thanks!
 
UPDATE: I researched spot colors a bit, and even though I don't really understand them, I tried this:

Converted to grayscale, selected all text that I wanted red, selected new spot color from the channel panel, selected my 485 color. This converted the text to red, and when I opened it in InDesign, the separations seem right now. The only problem I see now is that the red changes when opened in InDesign. In Photoshop, it's bright blue, but when I view it in Indesign, it's much darker...basically a dark burgundy. I think I'm getting closer....

This is something that should be done in Photoshop, and not InDesign, right?
 
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Great progress!

My guess is that the reason your lettering looks dark and muddy is that when still in PS, you probably forgot to put white (ie, no ink) on the gray channel where the letters are. Also, did you set the "solidity" (ie, opacity for a channel) to 100% for the spot color channel?

Tom
 
PS - Here's a nice tutorial by Dave Cross the illustrates and discusses exactly the problem you encountered when you tried to use a duotone-based approach. He briefly mentions the duotone method right at the start of his tutorial as a "don't-do-it-this-way" example, and then goes on to the "new spot channel" approach that you settled on.

BTW, lots of times, duotones and tritones can impart a very nice "feel" to photographs, and I use this technique a fair amount myself, but for the sort of thing you are doing, ie, colored lettering over a grayscale photo, you definitely want the spot color approach.

Also, in your last post, you said: "...In Photoshop, it's bright blue, but when I view it in Indesign, it's much darker...basically a dark burgundy...."

I hope "blue" was a typo, and you meant to say, "red" because if it wasn't a typo, I don't have any idea how a blue could possibly turn into a (dark) red.

Cheers,

Tom
 
Tom Mann said:
I hope "blue" was a typo, and you meant to say, "red" because if it wasn't a typo, I don't have any idea how a blue could possibly turn into a (dark) red.

Tom
Click to expand...

Wow, it must have been late. Definitely red. :) Thanks for the help and the tutorials. I'll definitely read (or watch) them.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I need to take the color out of the gray channel. I selected the gray channel, loaded the same selection that i used to fill the red, and hit delete (clear). This seems to work, but it made the area around the selection in InDesign a little rough. There was a little white around. I think this is just because my selection was not perfect. I contracted my selection just a bit in Photoshop, and that seemed to help.

I just want to make sure that's what you meant for me to do. Thanks!
 
I am a little confused as to why exactly your concerned with the separations. You need to get the file so that it looks right on the monitor and give it to the printer. Let him worry about separations. Give it to him in color, not grey. His job is to give you what you want to see. I can tell you this, in order to create a color separation, there has to be color there. I do separations for screen printing everyday and in order to create a channel for each spot color, I select each one with the magic wand, make a new channel and then print the greyscale image of the channel with a color assigned for the printer to use. Commercial printing will use 4 color process as methodology. It will employ the use of halftones, which will be created by the printer. Four color process employs the 4 basic subtractive colors of Cyan,Yellow,Magenta and Black. When the channels and halftones are created, the density and overlay of the halftone dots creates an optical illusion, fooling the eye to perceive color and shape. So, you as the customer, are well advised to stay out of that process, unless you know what your doing, and let the professional do his job.
Edit: I don't do InDesign so I may be talking out of school here, but I still believe you should leave some of this worry to your printer. The tutorial Tom gave you shows you how to accomplish your goal.
jordan8201 said:
Thanks for the replies. I've never done anything like this before, but the printing is actually for a 2 color newspaper. The printer had me choose a spot color for the text in Indesign. I used pantone solid 485,I believe.

I'm needing to convert full color photos to 2 color images for the printing. The printer suggested I convert them to duotone in Photos hop. When I do that though, I'm not able to make only the text red.

I also tried converting to Greyscale, then to cmyk, then making the text red.

When I place that in Indesign and use the separations preview, it doesn't seem to be appearing correctly. Am I still doing something wrong?

Sorry if this double posted. I lost the last one. Thanks!
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Is it possible that your red channel was inverted? The opposite of red is cyan (which is blue).
jordan8201 said:
Wow, it must have been late. Definitely red. :) Thanks for the help and the tutorials. I'll definitely read (or watch) them.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I need to take the color out of the gray channel. I selected the gray channel, loaded the same selection that i used to fill the red, and hit delete (clear). This seems to work, but it made the area around the selection in InDesign a little rough. There was a little white around. I think this is just because my selection was not perfect. I contracted my selection just a bit in Photoshop, and that seemed to help.

I just want to make sure that's what you meant for me to do. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
OP: "...I selected the gray channel, loaded the same selection that i used to fill the red, and hit delete (clear). This seems to work, but it made the area around the selection in InDesign a little rough. There was a little white around. I think this is just because my selection was not perfect. I contracted my selection just a bit in Photoshop, and that seemed to help. .."

Good. I'm glad that fixed the problem with the spot color earlier coming out dark and murky.

I'm not sure if your rough edges were due to low resolution or some other reason, but, FWIW, instead of cutting out (removing) that area on the black plate (whoops,,, channel), I simply fill it with white and I usually don't have that problem.

Also, don't forget that with spot colors, trapping adjustments are a bit different than with process colors. With spot colors, it's the order the colors are applied while printing that determines how best to trap. Wikipedia has a good article on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_(printing)

Scroll down to the section titled, "Trapping decision making" and read the paragraph that begins with, "A major exception to this rule should be applied when opaque spot colors are used...". But, before you get into all that, just try filling with white instead of removing that area of the black plate, and, if possible, starting with higher resolution (as in pixel dimensions) artwork.

HTH,

Tom
 
Larry - "I am a little confused as to why exactly your concerned with the separations. You need to get the file so that it looks right on the monitor and give it to the printer. Let him worry about separations. Give it to him in color, not grey. His job is to give you what you want to see..."

Unfortunately, there are huge differences between which parts of the process some printers will do and which they parts they won't do. It sounds like Jordan is dealing with a printer (for that newspaper) who probably fired all his pre-press men years ago, and now has a strict policy of only accepting submissions in InDesign so as to minimize his costs and possibilities for error.

Although I agree with you, Larry, in that I would also prefer to be able to submit a nice looking TIF, PDF, or PSD file and let the printer deal with these issues, sometimes you've just got to work with the hand you are dealt.

T
 
That's right, this printer doesn't make adjustments. I think he's pretty old school.
Larry are you saying there is a better way to accomplish this in Indesign?

In the future, when someone sends me a 2 color graphic, I will definitely ask for a layered psd file. That will make things more simple rather than a flattened jpg.
Tom, I'll try the white fill and report back. Thank you so much!
 
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